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Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

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Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#151

Post by da_chicken »

mhuffman wrote: post #113
binarymax wrote: post #103

It would be nice if instead of everyone hating on the prize, we could take a moment and reflect. Think of what this woman and many other women trapped in these regimes are going through, the sacrifices they've made, and the bravery they show to try to make things better. Think the prize is politicized and corrupt? Whatever - it's not about you or your opinion.

>Think the prize is politicized and corrupt? Whatever - it's not about you or your opinion. Here's a hot take -- I think all the Nobel Prizes, not just the Peace Price are politicized, corrupt, pop-culture-ish, and basically just in-group accolades! Similar to the Academy Awards.

I guess I'm not certain how any accolades could ever be anything but in-group accolades.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#152

Post by bnralt »

LindeBuzoGray wrote: post #139
bnralt wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also Iran in 1953 had a prime Minister Mosaddegh, who wanted to nationalize Iran's oil. Iranian oil was nationalized; in 1951 the National Iranian Oil Company took control, and retained it even after Mossadegh’s ouster (even up to today). > The UK (and US) sought the support of right-wing mullahs, then overthrew the prime minister and replaced him with a dictator. First, by this point in time Mossadegh had dissolve…

> Iranian oil was nationalized; in 1951 the National Iranian Oil Company took control, and retained it even after Mossadegh’s ouster (even up to today). Control of oil sales reverted back to British Petroleum (and the Seven Sisters) after the US/UK ousted Iran's prime Minister with Operation Ajax. Not all of Mosaddegh's changes were undone as it would gave destabilized the Shah. > Second, he wasn’t replaced with a di…

> The Prime Minister ran the government like a modern western government, the Shah was a figurehead.

This is simply false. If you want an example, look at the 1949 Iranian constitutional assembly where the Shah was able to successfully change the Iranian constitution to increase his political power. A lot of people are only interested in the U.S. involvement in ousting Mossadegh 1953, and frankly don’t seem to understand (or seem interested in understanding) anything else that was happening in the country at the time.

> Forced his father to advocate? Advocate for what?

Sorry, that should have read "abdicate."

> What you're saying is the US and UK wanted to remove the modern parliament to revert to an older, anti-democraric, conservative, traditional government.

No, the Majlis had been dissolved by Mossadegh after they threatened to oust him, and then he used a rigged plebiscite to take full control of the country[1]:

> The Iranian Majlis, the lower house of Parliament, which last month threatened to oust Premier Mohammed Mossadegh with votes of no confidence, was declared today to have been dissolved as the result of the referendum completed this week, in which 99.94 per cent of the voters using non-secret ballots took the Premier's side in his quarrels with the chamber.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/1953/08/16/archives/mossadegh-terms-...

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#153

Post by Tao3300 »

LindeBuzoGray wrote: post #148
binarymax wrote: post #103

It would be nice if instead of everyone hating on the prize, we could take a moment and reflect. Think of what this woman and many other women trapped in these regimes are going through, the sacrifices they've made, and the bravery they show to try to make things better. Think the prize is politicized and corrupt? Whatever - it's not about you or your opinion.

> Think of what this woman and many other women trapped in these regimes are going through Iran had a parliament in 1953, when the US and UK launched operation Ajax after the prime Minister nationalized Iran's oil. The prime Minister was ousted, a dictator replaced him - who returned to Iran on a flight with Allen Dulles. The conservative mullahs were western allies in removing power from the parliament. Then this st…

Ok? Where's this going? We're not supposed to care now because the CIA did some shady stuff a million years ago?

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#154

Post by Centigonal »

screye wrote: post #136
Gud wrote: post #112

Well deserved. Iran has so much potential. It's extremely sad how a small group of extremists holds the entire country hostage.

Genuine question, doesn't the ultra-orthodox wing reflect the popular opinion of the country ? My understanding is that Iran has among the greatest Urban-Rural divides in the world, and that the rural population is large enough to democratically force their conservative views onto the urban population. Turkey seems to be in a similar position, but their proximity to NATO and Europe keeps them somewhat grounded. > sma…

Iran's Supreme leader and guardian council have ultimate veto power over all legislation and candidates.

In the past decade, there have been massive nationwide protests almost annually, often with election fairness as a theme.

The Iranian military has a special wing, the IRGC, that is dedicated to the Supreme leader and used to crush protest or dissent.

These are not characteristics of a functioning liberal democracy. If Iran's regime reflects the popular opinion of Iranians (which I believe it doesn't), then that's in spite of their government, not because of it.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#155

Post by Luctct »

toyg wrote: post #89
sneak wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They gave the Nobel Peace Prize to a US president who had ordered so many drone strikes that even by the US's own admission, hundreds of children were slaughtered. It's pretty farcical.

As others said, the prize was well before drone strikes were a thing. It was basically honouring the effort to run and win the US presidential election as a black man, something nobody had ever managed to do.

Because being a black man is what really matters in a presidential election. Got it.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#156

Post by oh_sigh »

LindeBuzoGray wrote: post #148
binarymax wrote: post #103

It would be nice if instead of everyone hating on the prize, we could take a moment and reflect. Think of what this woman and many other women trapped in these regimes are going through, the sacrifices they've made, and the bravery they show to try to make things better. Think the prize is politicized and corrupt? Whatever - it's not about you or your opinion.

> Think of what this woman and many other women trapped in these regimes are going through Iran had a parliament in 1953, when the US and UK launched operation Ajax after the prime Minister nationalized Iran's oil. The prime Minister was ousted, a dictator replaced him - who returned to Iran on a flight with Allen Dulles. The conservative mullahs were western allies in removing power from the parliament. Then this st…

That's one way to look at it. Another is that Mossadegh was legally asked to step down, and refused, and then the person with the legal right ousted Mossadegh.

Regardless, if we don't like dictators or power grabs, then we certainly shouldn't like the current regime in Iran.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#157

Post by oh_sigh »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #2

The prize is supposedly awarded to those who have "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." Hmmm. Well. I don't quite see how formenting revolution fits the bill, but the Peace Prize has been very strange of late in general. By its own lights, I don't see a single person or entity who would…

Anything that leads Iran towards secularization and away from religious extremism could probably be viewed as a giant win for world peace.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#158

Post by mhuffman »

da_chicken wrote: post #151
mhuffman wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Think the prize is politicized and corrupt? Whatever - it's not about you or your opinion. Here's a hot take -- I think all the Nobel Prizes, not just the Peace Price are politicized, corrupt, pop-culture-ish, and basically just in-group accolades! Similar to the Academy Awards.

I guess I'm not certain how any accolades could ever be anything but in-group accolades.

Well, the police giving a citizen that saved a baby and award for example. Or moviegoers praising a new film. I'm sure you can imagine a few. Whereas Nobel Prizes, Academy Awards, etc. seems to be a lot of self-dealing when they are not trying to get points for doing something that is currently popular in a "fad" sort of way.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#159

Post by jansan »

dmbche wrote: post #102
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could at least make the case that Obama promoted -- indeed, in a sense, embodied -- "fraternity between nations," for he was incredibly popular with most of America's allies. (See, e.g., his "rock star" reception in Germany.) Even its enemies were at worst ambivalent towards him personally, and at best they were hopeful that he'd bring about positive change. In this sense, he, at minimum, shored up the self-image…

I think they might be refering to Al Gore instead of Obama?

OP here, I meant Obama. I totally forgot that Al Gore received the Nobel Peace Prize. Dear Lord, that prize has really lost its meaning.

Re: Narges Mohammadi wins 2023 Nobel Peace Prize

#160

Post by selimthegrim »

oh_sigh wrote: post #156
LindeBuzoGray wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think of what this woman and many other women trapped in these regimes are going through Iran had a parliament in 1953, when the US and UK launched operation Ajax after the prime Minister nationalized Iran's oil. The prime Minister was ousted, a dictator replaced him - who returned to Iran on a flight with Allen Dulles. The conservative mullahs were western allies in removing power from the parliament. Then this st…

That's one way to look at it. Another is that Mossadegh was legally asked to step down, and refused, and then the person with the legal right ousted Mossadegh. Regardless, if we don't like dictators or power grabs, then we certainly shouldn't like the current regime in Iran.

Mossadegh was buying people in the Parliament, let’s be realistic
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