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Forty years of GNU and the free software movement

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Re: Forty years of GNU and the free software movement

#151

Post by jimmaswell »

pjmlp wrote: post #19
noufalibrahim wrote: post #6

My earliest exposure to free software was via. GCC and Emacs. The early debates on Gnu/Linux, OSS vs. Free Software etc. were all things I imbibed back then. The ideological stand of the FSF was appealing to me when I was younger and really affected my outlook. Over the years, I can't help but feeling that while the FSF's core message is still relevant and true, their tactics have more or less pushed them outside of…

I am confident that after GNU generation is gone, everything will fold back as it used to be. We are already living it due to the rise of non-copyleft licenses, return to the shareware model only with another set of marketing names for newer generations, return of timesharing with thin clients only with newer set of nomenclature for newer generations, most relevant FOSS projects are sponsored by big corps for their o…

I'm glad to see non-copyleft get more popular, personally. Copyleft comes off to me as sanctimonious in its attempt to strong-arm anyone who uses the code into following its philosophy for the entire codebase. I could be wrong, but my intuition is that no company is going to GPL their entire codebase just to use some library, so it only results in wasted developer energy when employees have to duplicate the library closed-source. (Or they just use it anyway and hope they don't get caught.)

Re: Forty years of GNU and the free software movement

#152

Post by sassy_quat »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #91
nologic01 wrote: post #44

Its easy to drift into lamenting how the vision of the original free software movement was lost. This would be missing the growing forest (the widespread adoption of open and collaborative modes of software production) for a singular tree (a specific ideology about the role of computing). What has been happening in these four decades is that ever more segments of society (whether individuals or private enterprise or…

Yes indeed. The alternative timeline - Windows on nearly all servers and desktops. All software purchased from ISV and closed source. Bugs galore that never get fixed because they have you locked in. Crappy software due to lack of competition.

[dead]

Re: Forty years of GNU and the free software movement

#153

Post by callalex »

pipo234 wrote: post #22
orthoxerox wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And now we're moving to "free 3.0" (aka screw you Amazon), which is more restrictive than MIT or GPL.

There are a lot of issues with FSF's perspective and the way they were written down. Running GNU derivative in a proprietary cloud is one of them. RedHat (in)ability to make a fair profit is another. Still Google's Linux "theft" led to more openness in Android than Apple's BSD Unix rip off. Regardless of the license chosen, sustainability of open source is a problem. (I'm still baffled by the absence of government sp…

> I'm still baffled by the absence of government sponsoring

On the one hand, I agree, but on the other hand I am relieved that I don’t have to deal with people calling my OS “ObamaOS” and unleashing a barrage of hateful spam towards maintainers because of misguided political nonsense.

Re: Forty years of GNU and the free software movement

#154

Post by hughesjj »

ta8645 wrote: post #95
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #75

I'd like just to say thanks for all the longstanding efforts of FSF and GNU. While one could debate minutiae to oblivion, it's hard to dismiss the core ideas, particularly in light of the continuous stream of facts and events that unequivocally validate the very real threats and maliciousness that this movement stands against. Free Software in general contributes significantly to keeping the environment I live in mor…

> I'd like just to say thanks for all the longstanding efforts of FSF and GNU. I'd like to extend your thanks, by explicitly thanking Richard Stallman for his important role in creating both those organizations. The man deserves a lot of praise and respect.

> The man deserves a lot of praise and respect.

No, he really doesn't.

- https://youtu.be/R2SKenHRhMg

- https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/03/richard-stallman...

Re: Forty years of GNU and the free software movement

#155

Post by npteljes »

hughesjj wrote: post #154
ta8645 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd like just to say thanks for all the longstanding efforts of FSF and GNU. I'd like to extend your thanks, by explicitly thanking Richard Stallman for his important role in creating both those organizations. The man deserves a lot of praise and respect.

> The man deserves a lot of praise and respect. No, he really doesn't. - https://youtu.be/R2SKenHRhMg - https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/03/richard-stallman...

Just extend the saying with "for this". "The man deserves a lot of praise and respect for this." This is also how parents are supposed to raise the children too, not judging the person, but the actions. And I think we need that kind of feedback later in life too, not just in childhood.

Re: Forty years of GNU and the free software movement

#156

Post by npteljes »

I'm especially grateful for the GPL license family, for legally establishing the ideology that people need to give back. I firmly believe that it's partly why the different open source movements are as successful as they are, and to find such thing as a license like this embedded deep in the culture gave a lot of inspiration and appreciation to me.

Re: Forty years of GNU and the free software movement

#157

Post by klardotsh »

severus_snape wrote: post #42
SSLy wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the non-enforcement of the license (see vmware, various chinese companies), Linux kernel is de facto MIT, yes.

My experience as an embedded software programmer is quite the opposite. We do care about releasing our Linux modifications under GPLv2, and we do contribute to community when it makes sense. > see vmware from https://lwn.net/Articles/696936/ : "The court ruled that he had not provided enough specificity about the code he was claiming had been used by the company. The merits of the GPL and whether the two main parts o…

And then as a counter-example, Boox frequently (always?) refuses to release kernel sources because... basically "we don't feel like it and nobody's ever going to be able to force us anyway" reasons, last I read. The latest development I heard in this space was that folks were trying to sic some YouTuber on them who has connections in China (I believe lives there, too) to try and guilt them into abiding by the copyright law they agreed to by using Linux.

It's... not a good time.

Re: Forty years of GNU and the free software movement

#158

Post by cxr »

dale_glass wrote: post #141
cxr wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your overall position, but where you say: > Otherwise it'll be left in a sort of museum curator position I think we actually need this; somebody should already be doing it. I wrote about this several years ago: > Maybe in an alternate universe there exists an organization—or some sort of loosely connected movement—that focuses on software comprehensibility as a gift to the world and for future generation…

> Maybe in an alternate universe there exists an organization—or some sort of loosely connected movement—that focuses on software comprehensibility as a gift to the world and for future generations. And like I said, I agree that this is a good and valuable thing to do, but not for the FSF. The FSF is trying to change the future, not to preserve the past. GNU tools used to be the high end, full of features versions co…

There's nothing in this comment or your previous one that I disagree with.

Re: Forty years of GNU and the free software movement

#160

Post by [deleted] »

d_tr wrote: post #108
safety1st wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read claims 1-5 on this page. I could rehash them but the page does a better job with these issues than I would: https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-agai... Regarding the "Cult of the Emacs Virgin" issue, here is Stallman's statement about it: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-women-list/2009-Novemb... - this was a reference to the Cult of the Virgin Mary. Along with references to the "…

> Stallman has a long history of advocating for womens' rights ... I 'd like to add that he regularly posts political notes on his website which make this pretty clear to anyone who cares to take a look.

[deleted]
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