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Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

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Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#151

Post by _8j50 »

rcxdude wrote: post #111
_8j50 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2000 applications is quite rare. A posting is "hot" on indeed above the 50+ applicant mark from what I have seen. If you have under 150 resumes there is no reason why a human can't skip+prioritize a few times and read in detail the top 50 or so. A liberal 4 minutes per resume is 15/hr,120/8h. You can't spend or have someone spend one day reading resumés? In my earlier example of 50 resumes, that's less than half a da…

One thing that is worth keeping in mind is that if a team is hiring they're probably understaffed, which likely means that they don't have much spare time. Hiring should be a high priority in that case but it's often a struggle to even get a small amount of time to focus on it.

That's what managers are for, this is what they do, not the team. They're supposed to delegate actual work to their team and spend time on this sort of a thing so that their team has the right people and resources.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#152

Post by RexM »

daft_pink wrote: post #85

Is their evidence that Indeed is posting scraped jobs from other services? The reason this doesn't make sense is as an employer, we found that Indeed produced the highest number of candidates but cost like $400 per listing. We would first post somewhere cheaper and then post on Indeed if we couldn't find a qualified applicant. We would have loved to post somewhere else for less money and have it be scraped and listed…

I’m not sure if Indeed scrapes other job boards, but they (we?) do show jobs scraped from employer sites. They’re called indexed jobs, whereas jobs posted directly to Indeed are called Hosted jobs.

https://support.indeed.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002786323-Ab...

I work at Indeed, but don’t have any part in scraping jobs.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#153

Post by Gud »

giantg2 wrote: post #140
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edit: why disagree? Because I don't think a resume submission system should be doing OCR. There aren't that many text formats out there: between Word, PDF, and some form of plain text (just actual plain text or something like markdown or readme), that probably covers 99% of resume formats. Why on Earth would I want to run resumes through OCR when all those other formats can easily have their text extracted?

That's fine if the system discloses to the users that it must be in a text format.

When you submit a text document, the text should actually be text. This is the most basic step.

I would not want to hire a designer who sends text as an image.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#154

Post by noam_compsci »

This dude was a VP at JP. Surely he should be networking for a job, not applying to job sites?! Seems like they are going down the wrong channel. I’ve never filled a senior position in my teams via CVs, and always through word of mouth.

The problem with the job market is many-fold: 1. Volume. It’s easier to travel, move, work remotely etc. so there are just so many applicants for any given post. Also skills are more transferable than ever. 2. Opaqueness: salaries usually not posted as it’s uncouth to mention. Titles no longer industry standard. Job reqs are works of corporate poetry, not realistic descriptions. So people can’t contextualise. 3. Fake internal roles: apparently some companies have policies to advertise all jobs even if it’s 99% going to be filled by an internal candidate. Apparently it stems from non discrimination law. 4. Hubris: we live in a society where everyone (especially me) eternally feels under paid and overqualified. 5. Lies: the bar of what is a lie and what is a polished CV is personal and not agreed on.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#155

Post by colesantiago »

nradov wrote: post #143
colesantiago wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it has everything to do with AI, as this will make the application process completely worse, fake CVs and cover letters produced at scale faster than before with little effort which does not help the sifting process for hiring managers. You might as well (as I suggested before) not rely on CV / cover letters as a signal at all, and look at other means such as real world projects (with working links) that people…

That's just silly. Creation and submission of fake CVs was never an obstacle before. It was always super easy, and AI changes nothing significant. The reason most job applicants are fairly honest is that any major lies are likely to be discovered during the interview and background check process.

The point is this can be done at scale, and this is a real problem for companies that have lots of 'candidates'. So my argument is that CVs is no longer a reliable indicator anymore.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#156

Post by nradov »

colesantiago wrote: post #155
nradov wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just silly. Creation and submission of fake CVs was never an obstacle before. It was always super easy, and AI changes nothing significant. The reason most job applicants are fairly honest is that any major lies are likely to be discovered during the interview and background check process.

The point is this can be done at scale, and this is a real problem for companies that have lots of 'candidates'. So my argument is that CVs is no longer a reliable indicator anymore.

That is not a valid point. Candidates have always been able to submit fake CVs to many companies. Most of them don't do so, nor will they in the future.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#157

Post by Ekaros »

_8j50 wrote: post #101
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not blame the software. I'm pretty sure that images are not generally used as formats for resumes. I mean, at what point do you think it gets ridiculous? When it's a video instead of an image? When it's in Sanskrit? (Computer translation is a thing, after all.) When it's a video in Sanskrit? Or maybe is it more reasonable to say, look, this is some text, submit it in a standard text format? And an image is no…

I agree that what you said is more reasonable but most jobs are not for technical people. Even somewhat technical graphics designers might go over the top and craft a visually appealing resume and use a picture format. Why blame anyone for this? Just use OCR where possible. If the application instructions specify a text resume sure. Having a picture resume in a .docx makes little sense but a PDF is both an image and…

Why bother with OCR as you still find enough people without it. And if you don't get enough applicants that you need automation manual review will happen. So still you don't need OCR.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#159

Post by moltar »

expertentipp wrote: post #65
moltar wrote: post #41

IMO job sites were dead the day the launched. I posted a job ad on jobs.gc.ca in early 2000s which is a government site, with junk UX and even then I got about 200 applications. Then about five years ago I have talked to my last employer. And they used StackOverflow jobs and got 350 applications just the first day for a super niche position (Perl related). No doubt most applications are unrelated spam. Now, how do yo…

> about 200 applications. > jobs and got 350 applications Been on both sides of recruiting meat grinder and initially had empathy for this "we have hundreds of applicants and most are irrelevant". Once you have experienced human specialist on the other end, have some bloody respect. If you insist on finding inconsistencies, gaps, and incompetence in the CV, all you'll get will be hardcore fraudsters.

> Once you have experienced human specialist on the other end

This just never happens in smaller orgs.

And the big orgs aren’t that numerous. And even more likely to hire via within or by referral.

Re: Why Resumes Are Dead and How Indeed.com Keeps Killing the Job Market

#160

Post by giantg2 »

Gud wrote: post #153
giantg2 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine if the system discloses to the users that it must be in a text format.

When you submit a text document, the text should actually be text. This is the most basic step. I would not want to hire a designer who sends text as an image.

PDFs are not necessarily text documents. That's why it's important for the system to specify if it's expecting text, or use OCR.
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