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My Caste

cs.toronto.edu

151–160 of 451 posts

Re: My Caste

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because people from outside the caste system cannot spot it, and it is much jarder to spot than say discrmination against people of color or women, doesn't mean caste based discrimination isn't every single bit as racist as all other forms of racism.

I guess that depends on your definition of racism. Can people from the UK be racist to the Polish? If yes, fine. But technically it’s different from racism and more nationally based bigotry.

The was a race in Europe that faut a genocidal war against East Europeans, based on perceived race.

Playing semantics during discussions on discrmination always has some undertones of trying to justify said discrimination, because of course it is something different...

Re: My Caste

#152
India will not get anywhere meaningful as long as this institutionalized discrimination persists. "backward", really ? are we in the 21st century ?

Re: My Caste

#153

Honestly I think this is majorly overblown. Having lived in both India and the US and being in my late 30s, I’ve never seen caste come up in any conversation even once. That’s tens of thousands of Indian people at the very least. Feels like this person is hyper aware of his caste and seems to take steps bordering on paranoia.

The author says that: 1. OBCs are estimated to comprise 40-45% of India's population and 2. Exactly one out of 180 CS faculty members across five IITs belongs to OBC category Those two facts alone make it sound like a pretty big deal to me, even if it hasn't been a part of your experience in India. Or do you think he is wrong about those numbers?

I think the case is highlighted pretty well, clearly the representation is less because of continued/historical lack of access.

Seems to be something that should addressed asap because this is clearly holding the Indian economy and social progress back, efficient use of labor and capital is key, seems to me this is an obvious hindrance.

The bit about names is interesting, seems like something that has a hold on society and people go out of their way to conform to it. Like it is subliminal, not externally evident like race so it should be theoretically an easier problem to solve, I wonder if education and economic progress can resolve this, ironic as it is.

Re: My Caste

#154
post #42

This caste problems continue in the US, instead of leaving behind such ridiculous biases it becomes a part of an US company… https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/googles-caste-bias-pr...

Since this is about Google, where I worked: > The Google spokesperson said that caste discrimination has “no place in our workplace and it’s prohibited in our policies.” I can testify that Ads was very heavily Indian, much more than the general employee percentages would predict. I don't know if it still is. Sridhar Ramaswamy ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sridhar_Ramaswamy ) probably had something to do with that.…

I wonder how that sits with the diversity and inclusion directives that are everywhere now. Maybe they turn a blind eye when it suits them, or use other teams to offset the difference.

Re: My Caste

#155
It's always interesting when folks tell me that some form of discrimination based on categorical prejudice isn't that bad, or that they haven't seen it themselves.

Personally I think the amount of discrimination should be zero, and that any level of categorical discrimination any person experiences is unacceptable. And that's not even getting into the systemic effects from past discrimination on family wealth.

Re: My Caste

#156
post #42

This caste problems continue in the US, instead of leaving behind such ridiculous biases it becomes a part of an US company… https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/googles-caste-bias-pr...

> Caste problems continue in the US

The thread is filled with white progressives who know nothing about caste. There are what 2 cases of caste discrimination in US companies. In one of the cases (the famous Cisco) case was proven there was no discrimination.

The professor who wrote this blog is literally a Jatt. A land owning caste & one of the most powerful castes in India. Any Indian reading this blog will know this is BS. I would understand if the author was at least Dalit or ST.

Re: My Caste

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers could be right, but you couldn’t exactly argue discrimination tbh. 27% seats are reserved for OBC students in IITs There is a similar quota for people in OBC categories in govt jobs (which IIT professors are). Maybe there are plenty of OBC professors, but not in CS? Or that they don’t openly identify as OBC? Or maybe, people just don’t qualify/apply to the position?

Lol and why don’t they qualify? Because of centuries of discrimination that has kept them poorer and less educated. You might be able to argue that there is no discrimination today and that the hiring process itself is not discriminatory, but the outcomes are entirely the result of discrimination in society.

This discussion made me curious, how is the cause of their poverty and lack of opportunity relevant? There are hundreds of millions of underprivileged people in India, why should those from a lower caste be given precedence over others, even if there is a history of oppression behind their poverty?

Re: My Caste

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that depends on your definition of racism. Can people from the UK be racist to the Polish? If yes, fine. But technically it’s different from racism and more nationally based bigotry.

The was a race in Europe that faut a genocidal war against East Europeans, based on perceived race. Playing semantics during discussions on discrmination always has some undertones of trying to justify said discrimination, because of course it is something different...

Semantics may not be the most helpful during a discussion of this but neither is application of modes/solutions learnt from other forms of bigotry. The best way to kill the caste system is to forget about it which is in the process of happening. It’s not further entrenching yourself in that identity that may be necessary in more superficial forms of bigotry.

Re: My Caste

#160

Just as India is large and complex, so is everyone's experience. 59.5% of IIT seats are reserved for backward castes - that is HUGE in a nation full of students competing for the 40% seats available for the general category. The entrance exam score gap between reserved and general is massive (numbers are public) and it shows in their relative academic performance. One could make an argument that the Indian Government…

No one wants to talk about the giant elephant in the room: reservation system vs. competence. Go to any govt office: the chief of some division is incompetent, some low-level clerk does the heavy lifting. Of course, this low-level clerk happens to be from non-reserved category, as both recruitment and promotions in the government are driven by reservations.

Why people (both reserved and non-reserved) send their kids to private schools, techno-schools, residential-schools, IIT-schools even in small towns, small villages these days? The whole education system from primary to all the way to universities is failing: incompetent teachers abound. There was a time Indian politicians used to send their kids to colleges in Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai, Culcutta. Now, these politicians send their kids abroad right after 12th grade, as they are not impacted. The malaise in the Indian education system is so deep: getting a job in the govt is a way to 'correct historical wrongs'; if so, why these teachers (beneficiaries of this correction) don't send their kids to these govt schools? Ask, why these people look for the best doctors for their care?

Maybe, it is time to destroy IITs as well by forcing the reservation system on the faculty recruitment (equality of outcomes). That way, we can achieve the common denominator from primary to IITs. People with means (importantly politicians and intellectuals who defend reservations) can send their kids abroad for undergrad B.A/B.S, whereas 99% people are stuck with systematic malaise in the whole education system.

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