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Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

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Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#151

Post by BaseballPhysics »

chrisnight wrote: post #144
BaseballPhysics wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great! Delivery fees are already unsustainably low. Getting a product to my door cannot possibly be free ! That cost is simply being borne somewhere. And since the cost of products isn't rising (or wasn't until COVID), then those costs are being borne elsewhere, and that very much includes the workers who are seeing lower salaries, longer hours, and worse working conditions. So I say yes, please, bring on the shippin…

> Great! Delivery fees are already unsustainably low. Just where are you from? Sure, I see delivery fees that are "free", which means they're included with the cost of the product. But any time I see a delivery fee tacked on, it's almost always in the double digits, many times up in the 20-30s for a box that is about the size of an Micro ATX computer case. Not to mention when I have to ship stuff internationally myse…

I take it you've never heard of Amazon? You know, the company this article is about? The largest online retailer in the world? The one that typically offers free two day shipping?

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#152

Post by RHSeeger »

jtreminio wrote: post #28
bluedino wrote: post #12

I'm always amazed at the stark differences between UPS drivers, and Amazon drivers. UPS trucks are always clean. They follow the rules of the road. The drivers wear neat uniforms, they walk on the sidewalks, they're polite, they're just professionals held to a higher standard. Then there are Amazon drivers. They park blocking half the road, music blasting, the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a mont…

> music blasting Far be it from me to say a driver can't listen to music while they are at work. > the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a month Good. Washing work vehicles so that they are always sparkling seems like a waste of resources. > Reminds me of fast food employee who simply hands your meal out the window, no greeting, no thank you, no smile This is such a weird American fixation. Here, tak…

> > Reminds me of fast food employee who simply hands your meal out the window, no greeting, no thank you, no smile

> This is such a weird American fixation.

You appear to be confusing

> They are doing their job like they don't care about doing it well... like the fast food employee that doesn't try to make your experience enjoyable by saying "hi" and maybe "have a nice day"

and

> They didn't talk to me, I'm upset

As applied to the delivery person, it's things like putting the package to the side of the garage door instead of right in front of it (where you'll drive over it if you don't notice it)... and putting it under an obvious overhang if it's raining. The little things, that show you care about doing a good job; they matter.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#153

Post by imacomputertoo »

coldtea wrote: post #60
BaseballPhysics wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a weird American fixation. Here, take my money and hand me my burger and receipt, there's no need for a conversation or a fake smile. You don't care how my day is going, I don't really care about yours. Let's keep this transaction professional and solely focused on this exchange of money for burger. As a Canadian cousin over here, if you can't tell the difference between a smile/a polite "Hi, how can I…

> Is there something "weird" about that? No, absolutely not, and you can put down the superiority complex. There is something weird though. Getting service from those minimum wage workers is not enough: people also demand their fake pleasure to serve and sympathy.

Amazon delivery drivers make around $20/hr. that's well above the federal minimum (about 7.50) and above all state minimums. it won't make you rich, but it's not minimum.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2022/10/24/how-...

Also, expecting friendly service is reasonable. Expecting poor service because the pay is low is backwards. We should expect better pay.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#154

Post by bena »

renewiltord wrote: post #140
bluedino wrote: post #12

I'm always amazed at the stark differences between UPS drivers, and Amazon drivers. UPS trucks are always clean. They follow the rules of the road. The drivers wear neat uniforms, they walk on the sidewalks, they're polite, they're just professionals held to a higher standard. Then there are Amazon drivers. They park blocking half the road, music blasting, the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a mont…

Interesting how you can rehabilitate your image by just the existence of someone else that people want to hate. On the Internet, now: - UPS is now apparently the height of professionalism - Zuckerberg is the hero fighting off Elon Musk - Microsoft are the good guys reining in OpenAI Of course, this doesn't really match the common brand view. Really goes to show how Internet commenters are not representative.

As to UPS. It is weird. Now, I mostly don't pay attention to which service I'm getting stuff from. Mostly because I don't have the option most of the time, I'm getting it from the service the seller is using.

A while back, I did notice that USPS was by far the best option in the area I was in. They were often faster and had fewer problems. Now, it's pretty much all the same. I never have any major issues with any of them.

Regarding the Zuckerberg/Musk thing, I think it's just mostly an artifact of it being completely fucking bizarre. Two middle-aged billionaires are about to throw down in a fucking cage match. I believe people are mostly rooting for Zuckerberg because he seems to be able to actually fight whereas Musk has strong "street fight/smarts" vibes. The kind of guy who says he doesn't have "conventional" training, but is secretly really competent because of reasons.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#155

Post by barbazoo »

bluedino wrote: post #12

I'm always amazed at the stark differences between UPS drivers, and Amazon drivers. UPS trucks are always clean. They follow the rules of the road. The drivers wear neat uniforms, they walk on the sidewalks, they're polite, they're just professionals held to a higher standard. Then there are Amazon drivers. They park blocking half the road, music blasting, the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a mont…

> Then there are Amazon drivers. They park blocking half the road, music blasting, the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a month, most of the time it's not even an Amazon marked van, it's just some generic white rental. The drivers often don't have Amazon clothing, maybe just a hi-viz vest, they walk through your grass and plants, lazily toss a package on the porch and walk away.

I despise the company as much as the next person but let's stick with the truth and acknowledge that this doesn't seem to be universally true. At least not in my neck of the woods.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#156

Post by bugglebeetle »

coldtea wrote: post #108
macinjosh wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what income level does one need to start treating the customer, that is enabling one to have a job, like a real human being? Why does one's income level dictate how they treat others? I was always told treat others how you would like to be treated.

> At what income level does one need to start treating the customer, that is enabling one to have a job, like a real human being? At a sufficient enough and above. Below that the Clerks (as in the Kevin Smith movie) treatment is good enough. In any case, "treating like a real human being" and putting on a show of smiles and friendliness US-style, is not even close to being the same thing. In "real" human interaction,…

Exactly. There’s something fundamentally sadistic about American culture, I expect inherited from its legacy of slavery, where customers demand that workers perform a frightened but also “joyful” subservience to them as evidence that they’re getting their money’s worth.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#157

Post by jxf »

tiahura wrote: post #20
jxf wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get what you pay for. UPS drivers are unionized, and Amazon's aren't.

Why would I want to pay for somebody else’s clean trucks and neat uniforms? Sounds like a scam to me.

If the employees charged with doing the work are miserable and uncomfortable, how well do you think the packages are getting treated?

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#158

Post by barbazoo »

jtreminio wrote: post #28
bluedino wrote: post #12

I'm always amazed at the stark differences between UPS drivers, and Amazon drivers. UPS trucks are always clean. They follow the rules of the road. The drivers wear neat uniforms, they walk on the sidewalks, they're polite, they're just professionals held to a higher standard. Then there are Amazon drivers. They park blocking half the road, music blasting, the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a mont…

> music blasting Far be it from me to say a driver can't listen to music while they are at work. > the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a month Good. Washing work vehicles so that they are always sparkling seems like a waste of resources. > Reminds me of fast food employee who simply hands your meal out the window, no greeting, no thank you, no smile This is such a weird American fixation. Here, tak…

It's not fun buying garbage one doesn't need from a horrible company unless everyone along the chain suffers. Are they really suffering unless they drive in silence?! /s

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#159

Post by jxf »

jvmfjvfjvf wrote: post #19
jxf wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get what you pay for. UPS drivers are unionized, and Amazon's aren't.

FedEx delivery drivers aren't unionized.

They very much want to be. FedEx is more effective than UPS at union suppression: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/14/fedex-anti-u...

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#160

Post by adfskghnmionio »

legitster wrote: post #101

I'm always confused by the framing of these articles. Are companies supposed to help unions form against them? If they supported unionization efforts, why not just save everyone the time and money and listen to employee demands without one? It's like, you can love your wife as much as anyone, but you are not expected to help her get her own divorce attorney. Yeah, companies are going to be against unionizing. That's…

The government is compelled to argue against itself at trial. Manufacturers are compelled to inspect their own products. Banks are compelled to limit the money they lend out. Employers are compelled to allow unionization.

If we never compelled people to do something they didn't want to do, we would have no need for laws.

Besides, Amazon is allowed to fight unionization. The problem is using dishonest or abusive means to combat it. That means no classifying employees as contractors, no Pinkertons, and no Two Minutes Hate.

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