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Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

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Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#151

Post by justinclift »

CharlesW wrote: post #148
justinclift wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shopify offered the ISV a path forward ... It sounded more like the "path forward" was to wait 2 years for the new Shopify APIs to come out. That's not even slightly a credible in-good-faith option. :(

> It sounded more like the "path forward" was to wait 2 years for the new Shopify APIs to come out. So they waited two years and couldn't sign up any new customers during that time. How is that better?

From the article, it sounds like if they didn't choose the option they did, then they would have had to either close their business or largely cease it:

    "He told me in plain words they don’t want us to continue operating and that they’re locking our API key for new installs as we speak."
That's the "Option A" in the list:

    Option A - Stop what we’re doing, downscale the business and wait for the new APIs.
"downscale" there is a bit confusing, as it's unclear if that really means to comply with the "don't continue operating" desire from the Shopify people. I'm guessing it does, and that they'd look for other business ventures instead, thus not a complete cessation of the business.

So, it seems (to me) like they chose the right option. 2 further years of operating income and growth, though they didn't manage to figure out a working, alternative, income strategy before things went sideways at the end of the 2 years. :/

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#152

Post by imafish »

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #69

It's remarkable when stories like this reach the top of Hacker News, but then people still do not understand why one might want to build an application on a "Can't Be Evil" platform like a crypto network. Scalability/costs/complexity aside — this is why Ethereum and similar decentralized computers are attractive.

How would a crypto network help here?

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#153

Post by imafish »

szundi wrote: post #99

Takes years until he loses 80% of clients, people are so lazy switchig even if it saves money

Correct, although eventually most stores using the product will die out.

This is actually one of the biggest reasons for app churn on Shopify - stores going out of business :-)

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#154

Post by alberth »

spamizbad wrote: post #3

I'm not a business expert or an entrepreneur, but I've been around this industry long enough to know: Unless your intention is to flip your startup into an acquisition, I would recommend against plays like this. Specifically, tying yourself up to a closed ecosystem by building what amounts to a (albeit very nice and powerful) super-feature. I am saying this because I work for a large-ish company where someone did thi…

Agreed

Apollo fell into this bucket as well (with Reddit).

Never understood why more didn’t realize that.

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#155

Post by notJim »

tsunamifury wrote: post #113
spamizbad wrote: post #3

I'm not a business expert or an entrepreneur, but I've been around this industry long enough to know: Unless your intention is to flip your startup into an acquisition, I would recommend against plays like this. Specifically, tying yourself up to a closed ecosystem by building what amounts to a (albeit very nice and powerful) super-feature. I am saying this because I work for a large-ish company where someone did thi…

What your describe is monopolistic behavior to a T

How so? Shopify has many competitors and is clearly not a monopoly.

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#157

Post by notJim »

alberth wrote: post #154
spamizbad wrote: post #3

I'm not a business expert or an entrepreneur, but I've been around this industry long enough to know: Unless your intention is to flip your startup into an acquisition, I would recommend against plays like this. Specifically, tying yourself up to a closed ecosystem by building what amounts to a (albeit very nice and powerful) super-feature. I am saying this because I work for a large-ish company where someone did thi…

Agreed Apollo fell into this bucket as well (with Reddit). Never understood why more didn’t realize that.

Apollo had a successful app for years that would never have existed without reddit. It's unfortunate it didn't last forever, but it's not like their efforts were wasted.

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#158

Post by notJim »

matrix_overload wrote: post #4

This is a very expected outcome if you are creating your business around improving a larger business' product. You are effectively doing the product/market fit for them, for free. Once they see that your solution works, they will just knock it off, or ban you altogether. It used to be seen by companies as bad PR/karma a couple of decades ago, but not anymore.

> You are effectively doing the product/market fit for them, for free

If $600k/mo is what you consider free, I'd absolutely love to do some free work for you!

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#159

Post by HWR_14 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #136
HWR_14 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds about where I was thinking. You have to imagine that you're not paying as much for the product as a sign on bonus for the talent that has demonstrated the ability to improve the value of your product quite a bit over the four years of being locked in.

Enough money to retire on sounds even more like an "insanely high amount" when I think of it as a sign-on bonus.

I assume that means that the offer is the company purchased for just under 2 million dollars. Maybe a bit more, maybe some seed investors take a small percentage. Let's assume each founder takes almost a million dollars. I would understanding feeling weird paying almost 2 million for something that I can get done with 6 man-months. That is a lot of money! Enough to retire humbly or seed their next start up. But it's also something they will only get (or only get most of) over a 4-year vesting period.

So it's a 250k/year boost. That's again a lot. But that difference might also be what they can make at Google instead of a startup salary-wise.

But think about who they are hiring. People who have proven they can find new places to add value.

I'm making up numbers. But the point is that if you think about selling the next four years of your life (and not just the time spent on the company already), it is certainly reasonable and might be a good outcome. But it also might be worth turning down.

But maybe my guesses are totally off. Maybe he meant "retire humbly but continue to live in SF" instead of "take your money and retire to a ranch somewhere"

Re: Bootstrapping to €600k MRR and getting killed by Shopify: Checkout X

#160

Post by cycomanic »

>... locked us out of Upsell X and we couldn’t support it anymore. Even further - they kept charging merchants for Upsell X - but we never received those payouts.

Putting all the other things aside, but this struck me. How is that legal? That sounds like outright theft to me.

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