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Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

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Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#151

Post by infogulch »

V__ wrote: post #88
dtx1 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my research this has 0 legal validity, at least in germany in regards to the EU eIDAS. They are just smoke and mirrors for companies to make them "feel" secure but without cryptographic ensurances (Advanced Electronic Signature) or TLS like Signed Cryptography (Qualified Electronic Signature) this is just as legally binding or not binding as an E-Mail

> just as legally binding or not binding as an E-Mail Which is legally binding. In Germany most contracts are free-form contracts (Formfreiheit) and only need declarations of intent in the form of offer and acceptance. This can be a handshake or even a head shake.

Or perhaps even an emoji reaction in a text chat, as described elsewhere itt.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#152

Post by hgs3 »

tiffanyh wrote: post #111

These projects never realize that eSign tech is a commodity, the actual business you are in is creating market level Trust for your platform. Eg if you’re a CFO, would you being willing to take the risk just to save a couple of bucks on a no-name eSign service for all your sensitive legal & vendor agreements, or use the worldwide Trusted eSign platform of DocuSign - which has gained acceptance by regulators as being…

Competition is a good thing and a core tenet of capitalism. If we don't have competition and regulators are wedding themselves to one particular business then that means we have a government sanctioned monopoly.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#153

Post by gnicholas »

gamblor956 wrote: post #125
FpUser wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Eg if you’re a CFO, would you being willing to take the risk just to save a couple of bucks " Typical FUD preached by many online companies to lure customers. Even verbal contracts are enforceable (with the caveats of course). These will be fine for the most boring cases. The others are signed with lawyers anyways.

"take the risk" This is the important part you're ignoring. Yes, verbal contracts between businesses are binding, but only to the extent you can actually prove the terms in a court of law. Using DocuSign (or similar) is about risk mitigation, specifically about being able to prove the the contents of the contract in legal proceedings. The risk with being a business that allows for verbal contracts is that one of your…

I've never understood how DocuSign mitigates the risk any more than both parties signing a PDF in Preview (or similar) and exchanging via email. Doesn't the email part validate that you are the person signing the document?

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#154

Post by toomuchtodo »

somery wrote: post #11

Hi everyone, my name is Alex and I'm the creator of DocuSeal. I was not happy with the existing mainstream document signing solutions so I decided to create an open-source alternative. I've been working on this project since the middle of May and here is what the tool can do so far: - PDF form fields builder - 10 field types available (Signature/Date/File/Checkbox etc) - Multiple submitters per document - Automated e…

Hi Alex. Would you be interested in help running this as a non profit like Let’s Encrypt, but for digital signatures? I would be willing to contribute both financially and infra/DevOps/biz ops to bootstrap.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#155

Post by somery »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #154
somery wrote: post #11

Hi everyone, my name is Alex and I'm the creator of DocuSeal. I was not happy with the existing mainstream document signing solutions so I decided to create an open-source alternative. I've been working on this project since the middle of May and here is what the tool can do so far: - PDF form fields builder - 10 field types available (Signature/Date/File/Checkbox etc) - Multiple submitters per document - Automated e…

Hi Alex. Would you be interested in help running this as a non profit like Let’s Encrypt, but for digital signatures? I would be willing to contribute both financially and infra/DevOps/biz ops to bootstrap.

It's hard to say at this point if something like Let's Encrypt can exist in this space - but I'm for sure going to continue offering a free Cloud SaaS option with a generous set of features for document signing. I'd love to chat to explore more about the potential non-profit solution - please feel free to drop me a line at alex@docuseal.co

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#156

Post by somery »

gnicholas wrote: post #153
gamblor956 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"take the risk" This is the important part you're ignoring. Yes, verbal contracts between businesses are binding, but only to the extent you can actually prove the terms in a court of law. Using DocuSign (or similar) is about risk mitigation, specifically about being able to prove the the contents of the contract in legal proceedings. The risk with being a business that allows for verbal contracts is that one of your…

I've never understood how DocuSign mitigates the risk any more than both parties signing a PDF in Preview (or similar) and exchanging via email. Doesn't the email part validate that you are the person signing the document?

I think that's a valid point - and actually in their terms of services say that they are not responsible for the signer authenticity.

Here is a summary from their TOS:

"DocuSign provides tools and features that help to establish the authenticity of a signer, such as email verification, access code, SMS verification, phone verification, and knowledge-based authentication. However, it's important to note that while these tools can enhance the security and authenticity of the signing process, DocuSign itself does not guarantee the authenticity of the signers. The responsibility of ensuring the identity of the other party lies with the user"

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#158

Post by toomuchtodo »

somery wrote: post #155
toomuchtodo wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Alex. Would you be interested in help running this as a non profit like Let’s Encrypt, but for digital signatures? I would be willing to contribute both financially and infra/DevOps/biz ops to bootstrap.

It's hard to say at this point if something like Let's Encrypt can exist in this space - but I'm for sure going to continue offering a free Cloud SaaS option with a generous set of features for document signing. I'd love to chat to explore more about the potential non-profit solution - please feel free to drop me a line at alex@docuseal.co

I’ll reach out shortly. My thoughts on this are you don’t remain free, but instead charge based on a cost recovery model. You figure out annual people/tech/admin expenses, forecast and observe request volume over time, and then adjust per signing request pricing accordingly (or perhaps sell buckets of requests to high volume consumers, contracts ensure smooth cashflow). This enables longevity and stability of the service (which gives warm fuzzies to consumers of it), no concern of an acquisition or buyout, while enabling servers to spin and people to eat.

TLDR think electric cooperative or similar. You’re building an internet utility/primitive for long term consumption.

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#159

Post by shmichael »

ooterness wrote: post #95
dboreham wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only someone would invent a public nonrepudiatable ledger.

Like a chain of blocks? Where each block is signed by adding a prefix that produces an increasingly difficult hash?

I have Zero Knowledge about this topic

Re: Docuseal: Open-source DocuSign alternative

#160

Post by abound »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #154
somery wrote: post #11

Hi everyone, my name is Alex and I'm the creator of DocuSeal. I was not happy with the existing mainstream document signing solutions so I decided to create an open-source alternative. I've been working on this project since the middle of May and here is what the tool can do so far: - PDF form fields builder - 10 field types available (Signature/Date/File/Checkbox etc) - Multiple submitters per document - Automated e…

Hi Alex. Would you be interested in help running this as a non profit like Let’s Encrypt, but for digital signatures? I would be willing to contribute both financially and infra/DevOps/biz ops to bootstrap.

I run a small tech nonprofit (see profile) and have also been unsatisfied with DocuSign and alternatives in the past. I'd be happy to help if I can be useful here, either with hosting (and PKI) or with development directly.
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