Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#151

Post by kortilla » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:48 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #75

macdaknife wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would disagree that 31K is not a lot of money, but then again, maybe it is not a lot of money and my opinion is warped. I think if the government took a few points off for performance as a preferred return on the massive endowments, all of this would go away.

it's $8k a year. that wouldn't even cover rent for a school year at this point. i think a lot of people seem to believe that the federal government is handing out $50k+ a school year when theres a very small limit. people who need to borrow likely have to tap private lenders.

Please stop. You’re completely misinformed here on how much is available for students to loan. I know multiple people that took out massive PLUS loans from the government that carry interest, are not discharged in bankruptcy, and far exceeded the limits you are talking about ($70k a year for grad schools).

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#152

Post by algoatecorn » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:48 PM UTC

rhplus wrote: post #94

Workaccount2 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't going to happen because the whole point of the current government back student loan program is to give kids from not-ideal backgrounds access to credit, and hence access to the full range of schools available.

Crazy idea, but how about the gov just gives kids from not-ideal backgrounds access to grants and scholarships, rather than credit.

They do though. I was a Pell Grant recipient. All I did was fill out the FAFSA and the grant was automatically applied. That got me through community college debt free.

When I transferred to a 4-year, I once again filled out the FAFSA and was eligible for an interest-free loan which covered the difference between tuition and my Pell Grant.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#153

Post by jayd16 » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:49 PM UTC

somewhat_drunk wrote: post #87

basisword wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only governments could make…laws to restrict the price of University. Or…could limit the maximum loan size thus encouraging Universities to not charge more than that.

Price controls are one of the few things that economists on both sides of the political aisle agree do not work, and/or have unintended consequences which are worse than the problem they attempt to resolve. https://www.econlib.org/the-consensus-on-price-controls/

I don't think that's a fair take on the suggestion. What if it was something like Medicare where services were tax funded and costs are negotiated but fixed?

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#154

Post by f1yght » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:49 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #54

I'd like to see a new funding model for universities. I'd like to see universities be able to register for a share of tax revenue from their students post-graduation. For example "This course costs 5% extra income tax for 20 years". Then, you pay nothing for the course, but after you graduate you pay a 5% higher tax rate, and that extra money goes to the university. The IRS would administer the scheme since they alre…

I think some places have tried it before, but if it's optional then people who think they will earn a lot will just get a traditional loan, and people who think they will earn less get the income based one. So it ends up not being economical to offer.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#155

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:49 PM UTC

hospitalJail wrote: post #48

dpierce9 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private high school costs have also gone up astronomically and there are no federal loans for them. [0] https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-private-school

Where does it say that? Btw private school looks quite affordable. I used to think my neighbor was rich, they were, but for only $20k/yr you can send 2 kids to private school? That is cheaper than daycare.

[deleted]

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#156

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:49 PM UTC

preommr wrote: post #97

Others have mentioned the proble of government backed loans, but the whole higher education system is broken. People are going in to get a degree with a job, meanwhile there's a whole bunch of administrators and people that think universities should be for rounding out your knowledge so you're required to pay thousands more for courses not needed for your degree. If we really wanted to, I am sure we could condense a…

The rounding out is absolutely intentional. If we want certificate programs that are shorter and career-focused, those already exist.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#157

Post by paulusthe » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:49 PM UTC

In the United States, the growth in spending on administrators from ~2000-present is more than the combined growth of spending on scholarships and professorships combined.

Academia in the US has become a business, and the business is being run by the secretaries.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#158

Post by kortilla » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:49 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #130

Night_Thastus wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unfortunate, but to me this feels like half of the root of the problem. One half is easy access to loans, the other half is student debt relief programs. Between the two, colleges know they can charge absurd prices and pocket the money. It's awful, and I wish someone was doing something to stop this. It cannot go like this forever.

I think the solution is to just grant some money to schools and cap tuition costs. The current incentives are just so misaligned. Its only half the problem because you'll still see inflated housing as well but at least its something.

Just stop backing student loans. The issue will stop, very fast.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#159

Post by adventured » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:49 PM UTC

taeric wrote: post #24

eschulz wrote: post #10

Makes sense when you have student loans backed by the federal government. If an 18 year old with no money and no credit history gets accepted into a qualifying university, she will be able to receive a loan since the bank knows that the government will protect their investment if she fails to pay them back. So now young people have this easy access to credit, and universities can greatly increase tuition and fees wit…

Worse than just "backed by the federal government," the loans are basically protected by the government. Being one of the small list of things you can't bankrupt out of, the risk in giving out the loans has been fully pulled from the lenders. It is frustrating to hear the discourse over the inappropriate students that are taking on too much debt, all the while ignoring the lenders that are taking on too much risk. At…

> all the while ignoring the lenders that are taking on too much risk. At least, they would be taking on too much risk, if they hadn't captured the market so effectively

The lenders? Risk? 93% of all student loan debt is owned by the US Government. What risk?

How is it everybody pretends it's the Big Evil Bankers making all the money on this racket? It's equivalent to the false narrative about private prisons driving the high US incarceration rate (when in fact it was over 95% government prisons across the decades that the rate was skyrocketing).

It's a government replacement funding system for the entitlement programs that are bleeding out. They had to find a new funding source as entitlements dipped red, so they're strapping young people with massive debt (forever rising interest payments) they can't discharge and that derives from magic fiat dollars the US Government 'prints' at will.

This is another case of the government abusing the population.

Anti abortion laws? Government.

Anti gay marriage laws? Government.

Anti trans laws? Government.

Segregation laws? Government.

The war on drugs? Government.

The war on terrorism? Government.

Foreign adventurism wars? Government.

Vast illegal domestic espionage? Government.

Non-existent social security 'lock box' (not filled with $10+ trillion like it should be; should be the world's largest sovereign wealth fund)? Government theft.

How many examples do you all need?

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#160

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:50 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #20

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we get the government more involved in funding these things directly, it can only improve the outcome.

Funding directly by issuing a blank check to the vendors? No, it won't. Funding directly by setting a price cap, and paying vendors that amount for services rendered? Seems to work for almost every other developed country in the world . With the monetary savings of #2, it could even give every medical student a fully free ride.

> Seems to work for

I love when someone says "seems to work". In the strict sense, that only ever means "does something". Not necessarily "does what someone wants"... and never "does what I want".

When it works for those other countries, does it "do what you want"? Because it doesn't "do what I want" at all.

> With the monetary savings of #2, it could even give every medical student a fully free ride.

Won't someone think of the millionaire heart surgeons in the 1%? They obviously needed free rides back when they started, it's why they're only single digit millionaires!

> Funding directly by setting a price cap,

Starving the people you want to provide your medical treatment isn't the brightest strategy. Increases to price caps are always reactive, after they've been complaining for years. The bureaucracy demands that it take years more to raise the price caps. And by the time that happens, they've been bleeding money the whole time. It's a strong incentive for them to do all sorts of things that you don't want... and if you do it for any length of time at all, it trains them to do these bad things so even if you realize the error of your ways and withdrawn the bad policy, they keep on doing the bad things.

Quite clearly, the problem with health insurance is that we need a gigantic insurance company larger than any other in history, and that it needs to be managed by the paragons of competency, the federal government. Of course, they'll need to staff up... and with all the layoffs in the private insurance industry, we'll hire all those empathetic, kind-hearted subject matter experts.

Should be the best thing ever. I can't possibly see anything that might go wrong.