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Kagi raises $670k

blog.kagi.com

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Re: Kagi raises $670k

#151

Post by drcongo »

detourdog wrote: post #142
drcongo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried Neeva and immediately hated it - it felt slow and clunky. I tried Kagi and immediately loved it enough that I've been paying ever since they let me. I think the big thing that Kagi is doing differently to Neeva is just being good.

My first Kagi search was so rich with results it was a throwback to a different era.

I know right! I can't remember the last time I had to click through to the second page of Kagi unless my search was a futile one in the first place (ie: I hadn't understood the problem enough to know what to search for)

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#152

Post by fauigerzigerk »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #139
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think a small operation is exactly the sort of outfit to do it. A small operation in terms of number of developers yes. But not being able to subsidise user growth means they will never be able to build their own full web index as the fixed cost of doing that is too high for a small number of users. As a consequence, they will always be at the mercy of Google/Bing. The range of things they can innovate on will alw…

> A small operation in terms of number of developers yes. But not being able to subsidise user growth means they will never be able to build their own full web index as the fixed cost of doing that is too high for a small number of users. What do you reckon the cost of doing this would be? Just doing the napkin math for say a Mojeek sized index (couple of billion docs) doesn't seem to justify a particularly astronomi…

>What do you reckon the cost of doing this would be?

That is indeed the key question. I tried to find out before commenting but the information I found is very vague. Internet Archive spends millions per year, but their index is updated far too slowly for a search engine. I have no idea what it costs to create a Google-size index.

Do you think the Mojeek index is good enough to compete with Google?

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#153

Post by imiric »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #125
imiric wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hardly a relevant criteria. HN consists of a niche audience of technical users already interested in startups and search technology. The real criteria is whether Kagi will be able to scale beyond a niche market, and establish a sustainable mainstream business. OP's question is valid, but it can't be answered by outsider speculation. Hopefully someone from Kagi is able to address it. This investment is a good s…

You're forgetting that the "niche technical audience" has something marketers and influencers and other kinds of pushers don't: competence and credibility . And (not relevant here, but to plenty other products) control or influence over procurement process in SMBs, corporations, universities and government facilities. Nearly all of us in the "niche technical audience" are the personal IT support departments of some s…

I think you're overestimating the impact technical users have on the survival of a business. Word of mouth and technical influence inside SMBs and corporations can only do so much, especially for a business that doesn't have a corporate sales strategy.

> Nearly all of us in the "niche technical audience" are the personal IT support departments of some subset of our family, friends, and their friends.

How has that influence worked out for you so far? By that logic, all our family and friend circles would be running Linux, using OSS, and be more mindful of their privacy. IME my attempts at convincing others to use the tools that I use has mostly been met with lukewarm response, or even arguments in favor of the tools that they already use. Convincing someone to change their computing habits is not just a matter of being considered an expert in the field.

Google Chrome spread because it had the resources and influence of a billion-dollar corporation, and the marketing budget to reach millions of users. Firefox is barely surviving, and most of it is due to its corporate contracts, not because of its technical audience.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#155

Post by Sakos »

throwaway290 wrote: post #79
Sakos wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funding is from investors who are Kagi users. You could sign up to be a part of their next funding round if you want.

even if they were all users (they aren't), it's relevant how exactly? If Saudis who are 2nd biggest Twitter investors use Twitter it doesn't make its business model better.

It's relevant because they aren't just VC bros or Saudis. It's just 670k. I'm not sure why you're so worked up about it or why you think Kagi shouldn't get additional funding.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#156

Post by AdamN »

ignoramous wrote: post #117
tough wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pay a couple years software engineers for a year at SF rates

Or pay 2 capable engs in India for 11 years. £670k is a lot in some parts of the world

The typical formula is that it costs double a person's salary for the total budget. So really you're saying 5.5 years and 2 people is a low number so maybe you build a team of 4 and then the runway is an excruciatingly short 2.75 years.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#157

Post by throwaway290 »

Sakos wrote: post #155
throwaway290 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even if they were all users (they aren't), it's relevant how exactly? If Saudis who are 2nd biggest Twitter investors use Twitter it doesn't make its business model better.

It's relevant because they aren't just VC bros or Saudis. It's just 670k. I'm not sure why you're so worked up about it or why you think Kagi shouldn't get additional funding.

I think a good transparent business is funded by users and/or is publicly traded. This stuff makes me cautious.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#158

Post by throwaway51057 »

voytec wrote: post #132

Shame that the requirement to be an accredited investor was disclosed just before the round while previously forms only asked yes/no on this. $670k from just accredited investors is rather unimpressive. I believe that it stopped a lot of folks from being able to invest in Kagi, since this issue was brought up in FAQ sent out by Vlad in May. > Q: Can I still invest if I am not an accredited investor? > A: Not through…

That was a bad surprise for me too, but I understand why they did it this way. They were not after millions of dollars, but a (relatively) small amount.

I'm assuming accredited investors reduce the paperwork / liability and are a better plan A. As they secured their funding target with that scope, they don't need to action the plan B of non-accredited investors. That's less energy spent on investor relations and more on the product.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#159

Post by Version467 »

Love to see it. Happy paying customer here. Their product is great and I actually found myself enjoying their AI integrations as well. Specifically their universal summarizer is surprisingly good. But that's just an added Bonus. I'm primarily very happy that I can use a search engine that is incentivised to build a great search product because their revenue depends on it.

Re: Kagi raises $670k

#160

Post by marginalia_nu »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #152
marginalia_nu wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A small operation in terms of number of developers yes. But not being able to subsidise user growth means they will never be able to build their own full web index as the fixed cost of doing that is too high for a small number of users. What do you reckon the cost of doing this would be? Just doing the napkin math for say a Mojeek sized index (couple of billion docs) doesn't seem to justify a particularly astronomi…

>What do you reckon the cost of doing this would be? That is indeed the key question. I tried to find out before commenting but the information I found is very vague. Internet Archive spends millions per year, but their index is updated far too slowly for a search engine. I have no idea what it costs to create a Google-size index. Do you think the Mojeek index is good enough to compete with Google?

> Do you think the Mojeek index is good enough to compete with Google?

As a back-end for something like Kagi, it's sure getting there. Most of what sets Google apart is their exceptional level of user profiling. The actual indexing technology is likely on par with most of their competition.

Of course very little of that enters into API queries.

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