Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Noticing when an app is only hosted in us-east-1

blog.jonlu.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 193 posts

Re: Noticing when an app is only hosted in us-east-1

#151

Post by sznio »

kiwijamo wrote: post #24
re-thc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DNS is probably 2 round trips (CNAME then A), and that has to cross the ocean via your resolver of choice I hope your DNS doesn't have to do that. Most anycast DNS should have lots of PoPs (regions) and are really fast. CDNs usually solve a lot of the static asset issues. The main issue is the database.

People should use their ISP's DNS as well which is often <5ms. I've never bothered using an off-net DNS provider for this reason given how much faster is it to use an on-net caching DNS resolver provided by my ISP.

I don't want to be subjected to my ISP (and even worse, government) "security" blocklists.

Re: Noticing when an app is only hosted in us-east-1

#152

Post by bob1029 »

treis wrote: post #150
411111111111111 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record: a PWA can also be served by a single request, it's called hydration. My issue with these kinds of discussions is that they're inevitably using outright false arguments. You can make a well performing website through SSR and a backend templating language, yes. However , In a business setting with lots of developers this usually becomes an abhorrently performing website despite the SSR with the same tem…

>You can make a well performing website through SSR and a backend templating language, yes. >However , In a business setting with lots of developers this usually becomes an abhorrently performing website despite the SSR with the same templating language. I'm not sure this follows. It's harder to do client side rendering because your data is across a slow HTTP barrier. And the client is maintaining state which is hard…

> If you break up your monolith into modules

This is what we are doing. The server-side web monstrosity is effectively 30+ independent modules that are nested inside a common template. All of these could be worked individually without anyone stepping on each other. Anything that needs to be truly common lives in the wrapper and is rarely changed.

The only part of our business that everyone absolutely has to agree upon is the SQL schema. As long as we are talking to the data in some common language, no one will get too far off track.

Re: Noticing when an app is only hosted in us-east-1

#153

Post by NikolaNovak »

bob1029 wrote: post #136
ethbr0 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why make the client go read a bunch of information piles to re-assemble Humpty Dumpty every goddamn time they want to view the homepage? Correct me if I'm wrong, but originally it was because "servers" had order-of client compute power. Ergo, it was necessary to offload as much compute to the client as possible. And then in early js era it was because network latency and bandwidth limitations precluded server-clien…

> "servers" had order-of client compute power Still do. Biggest difference: If you intend to serve the same complexity of web experience today that you were trying to serve 20 years ago, you will find a single MacBook would likely be enough to handle the traffic. The challenge is that we've taken advantage of the exponential compute growth over the years and now it feels like we still have the exact same scaling issu…

It's very fast. It's almost unusable on a phone. That's not necessary though - I don't think you need much fanciness to make those tables not look teeny on the phone, just a little less pixel and size hard coding I think?

Re: Noticing when an app is only hosted in us-east-1

#154

Post by bob1029 »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #153
bob1029 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "servers" had order-of client compute power Still do. Biggest difference: If you intend to serve the same complexity of web experience today that you were trying to serve 20 years ago, you will find a single MacBook would likely be enough to handle the traffic. The challenge is that we've taken advantage of the exponential compute growth over the years and now it feels like we still have the exact same scaling issu…

It's very fast. It's almost unusable on a phone. That's not necessary though - I don't think you need much fanciness to make those tables not look teeny on the phone, just a little less pixel and size hard coding I think?

I am 99% sure you could solve this with a media query and some CSS totaling no more than 1KB.

Re: Noticing when an app is only hosted in us-east-1

#155

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

hunter2_ wrote: post #61
jaggederest wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember back in the old days when people used to concatenate images into imagemaps and specify the coordinates and dimensions? One image file for a whole site. Same goes back when we could just load a single library from the Google public version (cough-jquery-cough) and then all the on-page JS was just in-tag handlers. Not that it was better but boy howdy was it faster to load.

You're probably thinking of CSS sprites, if you mean only displaying a certain portion of the image file at a time. An image map is when you display the whole image file as-is, but have different clickable links at different coordinates/dimensions. The former is specifically for reducing requests, while the latter is more about UX.

I'm sure it's due to lack of standardization on the early web, but the really wild thing to me is that there are both client-side and server-side image maps (both still specified in HTML5). With the former, the various regions of the image are defined within the HTML and more or less act like regular links. With the latter, the client sends the coordinates to the server and gets redirected, so the user has no idea which pixels correspond to which URL.

Re: Noticing when an app is only hosted in us-east-1

#156

Post by dogleash »

flagged24 wrote: post #39
TekMol wrote: post #8

I don't buy this. Hacker News is one of the most responsive websites I know. And it is run on a single server somewhere in the USA. While I am in Europe. If you have users in Sydney, Australia ... ... you are floored at 104ms of latency for your request When I open AirBnB with a clean browser cache, it takes several seconds until I see something useful. Those 104ms of latency don't make a dent. Reddit takes over 5 se…

This is why I don't buy the push to edge compute. There is often lower hanging fruit to be concerned about.

Hyped tech that lets someone feel like they're improving their product is a hell of a drug.

Re: Noticing when an app is only hosted in us-east-1

#157

Post by est31 »

noitpmeder wrote: post #78
nottorp wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Q1: Why would round trip latency matter so much when the modern web 45.0 adds so much overhead? Q2: Why don't we just force all the SV techbros to test their sites - AND their browsers - on a $200 notebook with eMMC storage from 2 years ago?

Because most sites aren't interested in their users who use bad hardware as a market share. The most attractive client base are the ones with money to spend.

Rich people tend to be old, and not all, but many old people have bad hardware, even if they are rich. Meanwhile, 87% of US teenagers have iPhones.

Re: Noticing when an app is only hosted in us-east-1

#158

Post by josephcsible »

makeworld wrote: post #149

> In reality, the ping you’ll experience will be worse, at around 215ms (which is a pretty amazing feat in and of itself - all those factors above only double the time it takes to get from Sydney to the eastern US). Isn't it double just because ping measures round trip time?

No, that was already accounted for. 52ms is the one-way time and 104ms is the round-trip time in the theoretical best case.

Re: Noticing when an app is only hosted in us-east-1

#159

Post by h1fra »

rozenmd wrote: post #81
rozenmd wrote: post #2

It shows up if you need a CDN pretty clearly when you monitor uptime from around the world. The response time for Bitbucket for example is: 100ms from us-east 300ms from us-west 400ms from eu-central 600ms from tokyo 800ms from sydney (numbers from OnlineOrNot)

Actually I just built a tool to visualise this if you want to check it out: https://onlineornot.com/do-i-need-a-cdn?url=https://bitbucke...

Nice, thanks for showing it!

I tested on my sass that has a CDN and got scared a little bit, but then did a second call and cache hit everywhere, thank god.

Re: Noticing when an app is only hosted in us-east-1

#160

Post by littlestymaar »

oefrha wrote: post #113
littlestymaar wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Browsing HN only needs one round-trip It's never just one round-trip: the TCP handshake is one round-trip in itself, then there's the TLS handshake needing two addionnal round-trips, and only then comes the HTTP round trip. So the minimum latency you can have to load just the HTML is in fact 4 times the round-trip time. (And I left DNS aside, because the DNS resolution process involves talking to different servers…

> It's never just one round-trip That’s not true. TLS 1.3 0-RTT cuts down on handshake roundtrips, taking one roundtrip to establish the TCP connection before data can be sent; and HTTP/3 (QUIC) with 0-RTT actually makes it zero roundtrip, HTTP request is sent directly and response is received in one roundtrip.

Thanks for pointing that out, it looks that my knowledge was a bit outdated.

It looks like the 0-RTT thing only work for connection resumption so it will only work if the user has already visited the site before.

Still, even without it, TIL that since TLS1.3, there's only a single round-trip and not two in the TLS handshake.

Post reply on HN