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Why Britain doesn’t build

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Re: Why Britain doesn’t build

#151

Post by tormeh »

lll-o-lll wrote: post #49
ggm wrote: post #3

I find the economic reductionism in housing planning really irritating. It's not like other public utility functions, but it is damn close to a fundamental and is included in human rights declarations. What kind of state throws up it's hands and claims "it can't" fix housing when states can do precisely that? Thatcher's revolution in council housing is a cesspit of counterfactual outcomes. It made individual househol…

It’s the whole western world at the same time. The same policies, the same social outcomes. It makes me question whether there is any real democracy; did we all just happen to make the exact same decisions in lock step since the 70s by incredible coincidence? And it’s not as if the eventual negative outcomes of housing costs continually outstripping wage growth weren’t obvious and growing year on year. Who is actuall…

There's an essay written on this: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

Re: Why Britain doesn’t build

#152

Post by blitzar »

denton-scratch wrote: post #97
blitzar wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local authorities refusing planning, then granting it when you write a cheque for 10k for the planning officer is corruption. It wasnt a cheque, but a pair of first class tickets to the bahamas for the planning officer and their wife, totally worth it thought. Its not even an open secret, its a known fact. https://www.theplanner.co.uk/2020/08/03/local-authorities-ar...

> councils should ensure all meetings between councillors, developers and their agents in major planning decisions are attended by at least one council official Unfortunately many councils (including my own) are now run by an executive consisting of officials. People have known for decades that the planning committee is crooked; but I guess that's what you get in a university town where the uni owns most of the best…

> councils should ensure all meetings between councillors, developers and their agents in major planning decisions are attended by at least one council official

Of course council officials want to be in the room ... They want a piece of the action.

The planning officers were kicking back only a small portion of the bribes to the councilors and pocketing the bulk for themselves.

Re: Why Britain doesn’t build

#153

Post by vidarh »

mhotchen wrote: post #120
vidarh wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that historically, a lot of rail was built for settlements that, while they may have existed, did not support the cost of rail, and this has driven a lot of development. And this is both how it ought to work and means that the UK has a lot of existing rail that could help solve this problem if the government would just commit to streamline planning processes and to increasing routes and frequency to stat…

I think this is a really interesting perspective. This could decentralise the population and solve many problems that way, and also reduce the costs and risks associated with utilising fully modernised technology; no need for compromise

I think about this more than I should, because it drives me crazy how many rail routes in the UK are there but ridiculously underutilised because few people live there now, but so many of those stretches of rail also have immediate surroundings of rail station with no historic value, yet built on, that could provide extra density very cheaply if only people felt they could rely on faster commutes.

Re: Why Britain doesn’t build

#154

Post by rcarr »

lll-o-lll wrote: post #49
ggm wrote: post #3

I find the economic reductionism in housing planning really irritating. It's not like other public utility functions, but it is damn close to a fundamental and is included in human rights declarations. What kind of state throws up it's hands and claims "it can't" fix housing when states can do precisely that? Thatcher's revolution in council housing is a cesspit of counterfactual outcomes. It made individual househol…

It’s the whole western world at the same time. The same policies, the same social outcomes. It makes me question whether there is any real democracy; did we all just happen to make the exact same decisions in lock step since the 70s by incredible coincidence? And it’s not as if the eventual negative outcomes of housing costs continually outstripping wage growth weren’t obvious and growing year on year. Who is actuall…

It definitely seems to be more of an Anglosphere problem than elsewhere. I've been learning other languages with the long term view of permanently escaping the Anglosphere in the next 5 years, unless I finally manage to land a job that pays enough to allow me some stability.

Re: Why Britain doesn’t build

#155

Post by tormeh »

groestl wrote: post #114
lll-o-lll wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the whole western world at the same time. The same policies, the same social outcomes. It makes me question whether there is any real democracy; did we all just happen to make the exact same decisions in lock step since the 70s by incredible coincidence? And it’s not as if the eventual negative outcomes of housing costs continually outstripping wage growth weren’t obvious and growing year on year. Who is actuall…

> did we all just happen to make the exact same decisions in lock step since the 70s by incredible coincidence? Not US, and for reasons, the housing crisis is not _that_ bad where I live, but: in principle our country is exactly like our parent's generation imagined it. It's perfectly aligned with their interests. Where they'd hike to a hut in the mountains once, there is now a paved road, so they can still drive to…

This is definitely it. It's a question of demographics. The developed world used to be for young people because people there were mostly young. Now decisions are taken by and for old people, and those of us who aren't are afterthoughts.

A good example of this is the age at which our constitutions were drafted vs how old politicians are now. This is also the case in Norway but I think the US is a more relatable example on HN: Biden is twice the average age of the delegates in 1787.

Re: Why Britain doesn’t build

#156

Post by atoav »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #144
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Politicians and the bureaucratic class have deep investments in real estate 2. Foreign money keeps flooding into western economies to find a safe haven and lack of capital controls. A bulk of it goes into real estate. 3. Elections are largely monopolized by older people who mostly tend to be homeowners. The entire system is rigged against anything that would impact home prices - such as an increase in supply or ch…

> Elections are largely monopolized by older people who mostly tend to be homeowners...the entire system is rigged Homeowners, irrespective of age, vote more. This is in part enabled by material comforts. But there may be other layers of causation. The first two are problematic per se (though I'm uncertain of the effect size). But the last is fundamental--if someone can vote but can't care to, they're not going to ha…

The real question is, if you are profiting from this system: How can you stop people from caring, or alternatively how can you make them vote against their interest?

This is ofc a rhetorical question as you can see the answers play out very clearly in nearly every conservative party in the world (and much more subtle and convoluted in the parties left of them).

Re: Why Britain doesn’t build

#157

Post by mjevans »

Chyzwar wrote: post #148
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Politicians and the bureaucratic class have deep investments in real estate 2. Foreign money keeps flooding into western economies to find a safe haven and lack of capital controls. A bulk of it goes into real estate. 3. Elections are largely monopolized by older people who mostly tend to be homeowners. The entire system is rigged against anything that would impact home prices - such as an increase in supply or ch…

Migration to bigger tier one cities is partly to blame. Many young people want to live in NY and rent a shoebox flat for life. They think that they can become Friends protagonists when in fact they become broke and blame government.

Or, it's where their job is, which requires them to come into the office on some sort of basis.

Re: Why Britain doesn’t build

#158

Post by vogon_laureate »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #128
ggm wrote: post #3

I find the economic reductionism in housing planning really irritating. It's not like other public utility functions, but it is damn close to a fundamental and is included in human rights declarations. What kind of state throws up it's hands and claims "it can't" fix housing when states can do precisely that? Thatcher's revolution in council housing is a cesspit of counterfactual outcomes. It made individual househol…

1. Politicians and the bureaucratic class have deep investments in real estate 2. Foreign money keeps flooding into western economies to find a safe haven and lack of capital controls. A bulk of it goes into real estate. 3. Elections are largely monopolized by older people who mostly tend to be homeowners. The entire system is rigged against anything that would impact home prices - such as an increase in supply or ch…

It’s even worse because there’s an adult social care crisis, a pension crisis, and in some areas a rundown NHS and school system. So all the incentives are towards not just home ownership but also additional buy-to-let ownership so that those with the means can afford private health care, dentistry, school fees for their kids/grandkids, inheritance for the kids who are priced out of the market, and retirement.

It’s a gravity well of incentives towards absolute property gluttony and creating an overheated housing market and massive social inequality.

Re: Why Britain doesn’t build

#159

Post by parthdesai »

Chyzwar wrote: post #148
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Politicians and the bureaucratic class have deep investments in real estate 2. Foreign money keeps flooding into western economies to find a safe haven and lack of capital controls. A bulk of it goes into real estate. 3. Elections are largely monopolized by older people who mostly tend to be homeowners. The entire system is rigged against anything that would impact home prices - such as an increase in supply or ch…

Migration to bigger tier one cities is partly to blame. Many young people want to live in NY and rent a shoebox flat for life. They think that they can become Friends protagonists when in fact they become broke and blame government.

Or at least in North America, younger people don't want to live in soulless suburbs where there's literally nothing to do apart from visiting the same big box stores, chain restaurants and bars in exactly same looking plaza.

Re: Why Britain doesn’t build

#160

Post by thriftwy »

teddyh wrote: post #124
danaris wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not coincidence, and it's not conspiracy. It's zeitgeist, and people seeing one place do something and decide that's a good idea, and people following everything from scientific (and pseudoscientific) studies that came out around the time, to philosophical works published around the time, to all of the above that were old but re-popularized around the time. You can just as easily ask "why was there a rise of rig…

The entire world was (and still is, to some extent) horribly racist. Every nation, institution and venerable principle you hold sacred has horrible racism lurking in its very bones, if you dig deep enough. You can’t, therefore, dismiss anything on that basis alone. Argue with an issue on its merits alone ; to attack the supposed secret origin of an issue is equivalent to an ad hominem argument. Also, alternative expl…

What if the entire world is mostly rational, and it is the HN crowd / snowflakes from the richest US suburbs who are bonkers?
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