Apollo will close down on June 30th • Hacker News Board

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#151

Post by to11mtm » Thu, Jun 08, 2023, 6:12 PM UTC

retskrad wrote: post #28

The Apollo app had much better performance than the official Reddit app. However, the design of the app was amateurish and hideous to look at. The official Reddit app is actually designed by designers and it shows.

The official Reddit app, at least on Android, is a buggy mess from a UX experience.

- Half the time, clicking on a push notification takes me to the front page instead of the post that was interesting enough to click on. And then the notification is gone, and I can't get to said post easily at that point

- Sometimes, there's two articles that show up on the main screen that I want to read. I have to pick which one I want to read more, because there's a 50/50 shot that when I hit back, I will get a fully refreshed home page instead of being taken back to where it was.

- Overall it feels less natural to navigate through than the Reddit web interface, let alone the 'classic' (old.reddit.com) user interface.

- Probably not related to the design of the mobile app, but the hostile behavior of web reddit on mobile, constantly trying to force me into their subpar mobile app, is also irritating and painful.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#152

Post by jamespo » Thu, Jun 08, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

It's quite simple, make API access conditional on having reddit premium. Reddit get $50 a year and the apps can continue - although the userbase would be significantly lower.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#153

Post by robbiet480 » Thu, Jun 08, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

SkyPuncher wrote: post #121

robbiet480 wrote: post #14

I just don’t see Reddit’s response here other than “yes, turns out we are the bad guys who have been continually lying and manipulating the situation for our benefit”. I wonder if they’ll see employees quit over this. How do you trust your employer after this? I bet some subreddits will go permanently private or delete themselves over this. Just absolutely stunning turn of events, massive kudos to Christian for recor…

> Christian says in the post the refunds will cost him personally about $250,000. Does he have a claim against Reddit for that money I wonder? Why would they? In fact, lots of people were already frustrated with the handling of "lifetime access" while having ads being pushed. A business, Apollo, made an offer (lifetime access) to gain marketshare. It worked as Apollo is the defacto Reddit App for iOS. Now they cannot…

I don't think lifetime access is getting refunded since that was just a one time unlock. He says the $250,000 cost is to refund all "subscriptions".

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#154

Post by ameswarb » Thu, Jun 08, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

ghostpepper wrote: post #89

sebastialonso wrote: post #69

I see two pretty distinct issues here: 1) most people's favourite app is going to die, and 2) many subreddits will be negatively affected by this move: prime example is /r/AskHistorians. Personally, 1) is not really an issue and people are enjoying the outrage train, and that's ok and valid and whatever, but it's a third party app. It's a no-brainer decision to try to kill it if it's hindering your ability to make mo…

What is causing #2? Do the mods use Apollo exclusively or something?

Most communities rely on third party moderation services and tools which will also be impacted by the API changes. Many have said that moderating larger communities will be untenable without them.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#155

Post by rabuse » Thu, Jun 08, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #46

nkotov wrote: post #9

Bad move from Reddit's end. Apollo is one of my most used apps because I absolutely refuse to use the official app. Just like the new Reddit experience on desktop version, the mobile app is just as terrible. Clunky, slow, not user friendly. No thanks.

And exactly what are they losing from business perspective? Few users that generate only costs?

Not being able to understand indirect value as a business is seriously why so many businesses fail.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#156

Post by politelemon » Thu, Jun 08, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

fermentation wrote: post #35

dh2022 wrote: post #20

I am done with Reddit.

What’s the next thing?

Tildes.net is similar but not a replacement

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#157

Post by jsheard » Thu, Jun 08, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

com2kid wrote: post #125

robbiet480 wrote: post #14

I just don’t see Reddit’s response here other than “yes, turns out we are the bad guys who have been continually lying and manipulating the situation for our benefit”. I wonder if they’ll see employees quit over this. How do you trust your employer after this? I bet some subreddits will go permanently private or delete themselves over this. Just absolutely stunning turn of events, massive kudos to Christian for recor…

Reddit should try honestly. "We are losing lots of money, we need to start making money, reddit gold isn't bringing in enough revenue to pay the bills. 3rd party apps don't show ads, which costs us a lot of money every month. Keeping the 3rd party APIs up and running also costs us money. Because Reddit needs to stop losing money, we are closing down 3rd party apps." I don't know what why it is so hard to say that...

Reddit had an easy way out for the issue of 3rd party apps not showing ads, they already have a paid subscription which removes the ads on the official clients, so they could have made the API exclusive to users with a subscription. People would have been upset, but not this upset.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#158

Post by r00fus » Thu, Jun 08, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

This sounds a lot like the whole Twitter issue where they messed with MFA, and ruined my ability to login anywhere other than a single laptop (that had an existing token).

So that fixed my Twitter addition - I just stopped using it.

The same will likely happen here - Reddit is going to find out that I'm happy querying for other users's content (from Google/Duck queries) but without Apollo, I'm probably not going to contribute.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#159

Post by pphysch » Thu, Jun 08, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #101

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #74

I'm not a user of Apollo, and honestly have been perfectly fine using old.reddit.com on both mobile and desktop. That said, while I realize it's just his side of the story, the Apollo developer comes across as imminently reasonable and rational (and he apparently has the receipts to back it up), while Reddit comes across as embodying typical corporate greed. On a related note, I think everyone should understand that,…

> "Don't be evil" is simply impossible for large corporations I see Patagonia as the antithesis of this broadly accepted assertion. It's possible, it just takes having a goal for your company that's more than greed.

Fashion companies like Patagonia and online social platforms like Reddit are radically different with how they interact with network effects.

Fashion benefits from exclusivity and brand identity. It behooves Patagonia to brand itself as "not evil" or "not capitalist" or whatever, it's ultimately a fashion statement.

Social networks suffer from exclusivity, and brand identity is an afterthought. I'd wager that most Reddit users have a neutral/negative view of the Reddit brand, but they use Reddit anyways because of network effects (everyone is there) and the brand doesn't really impact their favorite subreddits. There have been many attempts at "exclusive" social networks with carefully crafted brand identity, and they always fail.

There's a theory that social media also has fashion phases, but I don't think we have enough data to back that up. MySpace lasted about 6 years. Facebook is 19 and Twitter is 17 and both are going strong.

Re: Apollo will close down on June 30th

#160

Post by ajross » Thu, Jun 08, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

robbiet480 wrote: post #14

I just don’t see Reddit’s response here other than “yes, turns out we are the bad guys who have been continually lying and manipulating the situation for our benefit”. I wonder if they’ll see employees quit over this. How do you trust your employer after this? I bet some subreddits will go permanently private or delete themselves over this. Just absolutely stunning turn of events, massive kudos to Christian for recor…

> Just spitballing here but could an employee bring a shareholder lawsuit for negatively impacting financial outlook or destroying brand value?

Not against a private company, no. Reddit is still owned by Conde-Nast, I believe. What to do with it is up to them.

Also in general *employees* don't bring shareholder lawsuits. Even if you own significant stock, getting fired for suing your boss is usually a losing proposition.