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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#151

Post by symic »

russellbeattie wrote: post #42
beoberha wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just went to echo this. Most of the reviews I’ve watched or read have raved about the eye tracking, regardless of if the reviewer was a fan of VR in general. It feels really cool that we might finally have a new computing paradigm. There is so much potential here and I can’t wait to see where things go.

No one has used it for an extended period of time. You don't get a headache right away, but after a while, you feel it.

The people who designed it, built it, and tested it have used it for an extended period of time. It would be un Apple like if they decide to ship a product with such a well known potential defect in the user experience.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#152

Post by jayd16 »

JohnBooty wrote: post #21

But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've got one good eye and one bad eye. The bad eye is legally blind, has an off-center iris and is kind of lazy w.r.t. tracking. I'm extremely curious to know how Vision Pro deals with this. One certainly hopes there's some kind of "single eye" mode; certainly s…

> Eye tracking most certainly sounds like the way to go, relative to hand-waving.

I suppose Apple could change my mind but I've never been a fan of eyes as input. Touch typing or any equivalent where you can look at one thing and do another seems impossible now.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#153

Post by criddell »

cubefox wrote: post #102
kalleboo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

People generally agree that VR games are miles ahead of ordinary games in terms of immersion. The adoption problem seems to be that there is no affordable VR console with a lot of big exclusive games. The Meta Quest comes close to a decent price point, but there aren't many publishers making elaborate games for it. A chicken/egg situation with regards to adoption and game investment. Basically, a Game Boy or Switch f…

> there is no affordable VR console with a lot of big exclusive games

What is even more impressive is when a VR version of a big, popular game is the best version of that game.

Affordability is somewhat relative. If something is truly compelling, people will spend a lot of money to get it.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#154

Post by tanduv »

kalleboo wrote: post #88
cubefox wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Quest Pro has actual VR games and proper VR controllers though. I doubt that such games are possible or probable with eye pointing and finger clicking alone. Apple also didn't include any VR games into their presentation.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

VR gaming has definitely cultivated a community in the genre of sim-racing and Half Life Alyx modding

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#155

Post by judge2020 »

ChristopherDrum wrote: post #134
JohnBooty wrote: post #21

But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've got one good eye and one bad eye. The bad eye is legally blind, has an off-center iris and is kind of lazy w.r.t. tracking. I'm extremely curious to know how Vision Pro deals with this. One certainly hopes there's some kind of "single eye" mode; certainly s…

From Apple's visionOS page, re: Accessibility ( https://developer.apple.com/visionos/ ) "And for people who prefer a different way to navigate content, Pointer Control lets them select their index finger, wrist, or head as an alternative pointer." This reads to me like they've got you covered (at least in principle).

From a Q&A session, a trackpad will also work.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#156

Post by the_af »

cubefox wrote: post #102
kalleboo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

People generally agree that VR games are miles ahead of ordinary games in terms of immersion. The adoption problem seems to be that there is no affordable VR console with a lot of big exclusive games. The Meta Quest comes close to a decent price point, but there aren't many publishers making elaborate games for it. A chicken/egg situation with regards to adoption and game investment. Basically, a Game Boy or Switch f…

"Exclusive games" have little to do with adoption. They are a vendor lock in thing. Games need to be good and immersive, not exclusive.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#157

Post by criddell »

redundantly wrote: post #150
mikenew wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Gaming can't be good, because there's no controllers. Even if the hand and eye tracking is absolutely S-tier, you're never getting something like button input from swinging your empty hands around, twitching your fingers. Just the occlusion from the back of your hand would be enough enough for that to be impossible. Fitness might be more doable, but even then I thi…

I hate VR controllers. I'd prefer to play VR games without them. I'd prefer they do hand and eye tracking to determine what I'm doing, like look at a zombie and and go pew pew pew with my finger guns. The only VR headset I've tried that can do hand tracking (Oculus Quest) sucks at it and games there didn't pick up on it as an input at all, as far as I know. However, just because VR controllers won't exist for the App…

My family went to a Sandbox VR store and played a zombie game. In it they gave you “guns” that the cameras could track. I put guns in quotes because when you remove the headset you see that you were basically holding a stick with reflectors on it, but in VR it sure felt gunish.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#158

Post by judge2020 »

tanduv wrote: post #154
kalleboo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

VR gaming has definitely cultivated a community in the genre of sim-racing and Half Life Alyx modding

The problem is that the Quest 2 is what everyone bought and it's arguably not a compelling enough experience to encourage people to put it on instead of playing traditional PC/console games. Most people serious about PC gaming eventually upgrade to an Index because it's still the best option at a great price if you have the room for a full-room setup - and these people definitely play at least a few times a month.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#159

Post by acdha »

spartanatreyu wrote: post #137
lancesells wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought they showed a PS5 Controller being used?

1) Console controls are not a suitable alternative to proper VR controllers 2) What makes you think the PS5 controller was connected to the headset, and not the headset being used as a TV showing the output of a PS5?

Re: 2, they showed it being used to play Apple Arcade games and since they already have support for that it’s unlikely that they have deep philosophical objections.

Re: 1, it’ll be interesting to see how well the camera system works in practice. All of the reviews are quite positive about precise movements so it might be that they’re throwing hardware at this problem but I’d also be surprised if they were not very carefully tracking performance – if the accuracy isn’t there, it’d take an unusually un-Apple like product manager to risk a billion dollar investment rather than enable that class of device.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#160

Post by grogenaut »

lostmsu wrote: post #104
cubefox wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People generally agree that VR games are miles ahead of ordinary games in terms of immersion. The adoption problem seems to be that there is no affordable VR console with a lot of big exclusive games. The Meta Quest comes close to a decent price point, but there aren't many publishers making elaborate games for it. A chicken/egg situation with regards to adoption and game investment. Basically, a Game Boy or Switch f…

They are immersive, 100%. But also nauseating and forehead heating.

thta's not going to get better with working in one. it'll still be forehead heating, nauseating, distracting.
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