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Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

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Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#151

Post by LorenPechtel »

dtgriscom wrote: post #67
fragmede wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also correlation is not causation. Just because some people jumping from planes have parachutes doesn't mean that all people jumping from planes have parachutes.

Wearing parachutes cause people to jump out of planes.

Yup, *highly* skewed sample, we can't draw conclusions. The number of people who have willingly jumped from planes without desiring death is tiny. The number who have survived is even lower. (Yes, people jump without desiring death. Death by splat is better than death by fire.)

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#152

Post by LorenPechtel »

rob74 wrote: post #80
gnicholas wrote: post #31

I came to leave a snarky joke comment about "in mice?", and then I remembered that mice don't actually need parachutes because their terminal velocity is roughly the same as a human using a parachute [1]. If someone actually ran the study with mice, they'd find that parachutes aren't necessary! 1: https://johnmjennings.com/can-a-mouse-survive-a-fall-from-a-...

Not in mice, but in stationary aircraft sitting on the tarmac - so even less useful than a study using mice.

It was actually done to point out the problem with studying the wrong thing.

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#153

Post by fho »

tialaramex wrote: post #81
ricksunny wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder if a bunch of the world's smallest flightless mammal (a fraction of the house mouse's mass) were released at altitude, would they survive? (Not proposing that this be done but thought experiments and/or simulations): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_shrew

At altitude it's very cold, the shrews don't work well in the cold due to the same thing that makes them suitable for this experiment - they are very small, thus they lose heat to the environment easily. So, it's possible they freeze to death first. But yes, I imagine that if they survive the cold and aren't falling onto a hard surface (e.g. they land in grass, not a car park) they would survive. For them other than…

Isn't it proven that squirrels have a terminal velocity below what is harmful to them? [citation needed]

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#154

Post by m3047 »

Scarblac wrote: post #39
gnicholas wrote: post #31

I came to leave a snarky joke comment about "in mice?", and then I remembered that mice don't actually need parachutes because their terminal velocity is roughly the same as a human using a parachute [1]. If someone actually ran the study with mice, they'd find that parachutes aren't necessary! 1: https://johnmjennings.com/can-a-mouse-survive-a-fall-from-a-...

But what's the terminal velocity of a parachute backpack strapped to a mouse?

Bellbottoms or drip coat?

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#155

Post by LorenPechtel »

earthbee wrote: post #9

They solved aircraft safety back in the 50s, but big parachute is keeping the research suppressed so they can sell more parachutes.

Nah, it's Big Atmosphere.

You can survive the landing. On Titan or Venus. (Surviving the environment is another matter...)

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#156

Post by LorenPechtel »

phkahler wrote: post #88

I see this all the time when researching various non-pharmasutical treatments. Vitamin D supplementation has no benefit for people without a deficiency for example. It's annoying how much of this is out there.

Yup, this sort of factor can make it hard to find the answer.

Do some patients benefit from D supplements? Certainly. Yet you can find a group that gains no benefit. In this case we obviously can divide them up but in many cases the division is unknown.

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#158

Post by kelseyfrog »

gnicholas wrote: post #31

I came to leave a snarky joke comment about "in mice?", and then I remembered that mice don't actually need parachutes because their terminal velocity is roughly the same as a human using a parachute [1]. If someone actually ran the study with mice, they'd find that parachutes aren't necessary! 1: https://johnmjennings.com/can-a-mouse-survive-a-fall-from-a-...

The cuteness factor of mice with little parachutes might be worth it alone though!

Re: Parachute use to prevent death, trauma when jumping from aircraft (2018) [pdf]

#160

Post by reaperman »

tialaramex wrote: post #81
ricksunny wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder if a bunch of the world's smallest flightless mammal (a fraction of the house mouse's mass) were released at altitude, would they survive? (Not proposing that this be done but thought experiments and/or simulations): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_shrew

At altitude it's very cold, the shrews don't work well in the cold due to the same thing that makes them suitable for this experiment - they are very small, thus they lose heat to the environment easily. So, it's possible they freeze to death first. But yes, I imagine that if they survive the cold and aren't falling onto a hard surface (e.g. they land in grass, not a car park) they would survive. For them other than…

Shrews also starve to death if they go a few hours without food, which might complicate the logistics of the experiment a bit.
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