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Update on Sharing

about.netflix.com

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Re: Update on Sharing

#151
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"standard with ads" is fine, but I wish Netflix would stop filling the other plans with ads too then. I have premium at the moment (how long that lasts depends on how annoying they become when they start cracking down on what they think my "household" is) and the ads are still getting out of hand.

> I have premium at the moment ...and the ads are still getting out of hand. Do you mean promos for other Netflix shows? Or are these ads for products/services unrelated to Netflix?

So far it's been mostly ads for other netflix shows, but they are everywhere. Full screen ads you have to click through to even get to the catalogue, a giant ad at the top you have to scroll past, ads taking up multiple rows as you scroll through their options, the ads that play in the middle of a show if you pause the screen for more than a few seconds, the ads that play as soon as the credits start rolling (even when there's still content), etc.

Re: Update on Sharing

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you're missing something: the CEO said, quote, "we love people sharing Netflix". There's no plausible interpretation where they're referring to people living under one roof, because of course those people can share the account. That's why they have profiles in the first place. Additionally, their premium plan includes "download on 6 devices". They didn't intend that for the average person who has 6 Netflix-capab…

You're making assumptions with no context. This is how TechCrunch cites it: > “We love people sharing Netflix whether they’re two people on a couch or 10 people on a couch,,” Hastings said. “That’s a positive thing, not a negative thing.” To illustrate this example, he spoke of how a parent may share their login with their child. And when that child grows up, they will usually subscribe to Netflix, too. Unless the co…

That is silly though. There was never an expectation that only 1 set of eyeballs would watch a stream.

Netflix tweeted in 2017 that “Love is sharing a password”. There is no other way to read that statement other than being pro sharing. Which makes sense, I pay for X concurrent streams. Let me use my streams, period.

https://twitter.com/netflix/status/840276073040371712

Re: Update on Sharing

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you're missing something: the CEO said, quote, "we love people sharing Netflix". There's no plausible interpretation where they're referring to people living under one roof, because of course those people can share the account. That's why they have profiles in the first place. Additionally, their premium plan includes "download on 6 devices". They didn't intend that for the average person who has 6 Netflix-capab…

You're making assumptions with no context. This is how TechCrunch cites it: > “We love people sharing Netflix whether they’re two people on a couch or 10 people on a couch,,” Hastings said. “That’s a positive thing, not a negative thing.” To illustrate this example, he spoke of how a parent may share their login with their child. And when that child grows up, they will usually subscribe to Netflix, too. Unless the co…

Regarding your last paragraph: I agree, and that bolsters my point. Intra-household sharing is baked into their account design, so of course Netflix supports and encourages that. There'd be no need for anyone to ask their CEO if they support intra-household sharing, or him to state that they do. It's a given. That strengthens the argument that he must have been referring to sharing between households when he said "we love people sharing Netflix". Otherwise the question, and his response, would be vacuously true.

Re: Update on Sharing

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not struggling to keep the lights on. They’re making a calculated bet they can extract more profit this way.

Their stock went from $690 in Oct 2021 to $175 in June 2022. That's a 75% plummet, which is definitely approaching the equivalent of struggling-to-keep-the-lights-on for a modern corporation. That's three quarters of the way to bankruptcy, big red flashing danger lights. So of course this is a calculated bet to improve profitability. Virtually everything a for-profit corporation does is to improve profitability -- th…

>That's three quarters of the way to bankruptcy, big red flashing danger lights.

Is it though? Were they funding operations by selling shares?

Re: Update on Sharing

#155
post #63

I don't understand their logic. First: you can subscribe to n simultaneous streams/downloads. Ours is 2, and sometimes the kids complain, and end up sorting it out somehow.* Second: if you have a kid at college, they "live at home" for various other mechanisms (count as a dependent for taxation; qualify for parents' health insurance, can vote in their home district regardless of where they live; can be part of a fami…

The logic seems pretty clear to me, both in terms of financial necessity (keeping Netflix in business) and in terms of policy for households. And Netflix is a private company, so however dependents or health insurance or voting or phone plans are defined is irrelevant. Also, all of those definitions are different from each other anyways , so it's not like there's any consistency in the first place.

This isn’t about keeping Netflix in business, they are doing just fine. This is about squeezing out every last drop of exponential growth expected by shareholders.

Re: Update on Sharing

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's become a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, like how people didn't trust Google to keep Stadia running so why would they buy full price games on it? Why would I pay for Netflix and get excited about their shows when so many get canned with no conclusion? But as more people say that and don't bother watching until there's a whole finished story, then even more shows get canceled earlier because nobody watched the…

> But as more people say that and don't bother watching until there's a whole finished story, then even more shows get canceled earlier because nobody watched the first season. That's still netflix's fault. They need to stop expecting the world to flock to their newest shows the moment they are released, there's too much competing for our attention, and instead invest in stories and creators they believe in, and make…

I don't get why they can't just film a finale for the cancelled shows. One last episode to wrap up the plot lines.

Re: Update on Sharing

#157
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am honestly surprised they keep pushing this I'm not surprised. One of the big problems that faces Netflix is market saturation. Lots of companies like Google or Facebook can grow profits by getting you to use their service more. The more you use, the more they earn. Netflix can only get more revenue by getting more paying users or raising prices on existing users. In the United States and Canada, Netflix has 74.…

> To keep growing in many areas, Netflix needs to break up account sharing. That trick only works once and then they're right back to where they were with zero growth because everyone already has a netflix account or they've been so pissed off at netflix changing the rules of their service and with price hikes, and the decline in content, that they've already canceled and moved on to the many many competitors with bi…

> That trick only works once and then they're right back to where they were with zero growth

Yep, it just kicks the can down the road, but it might kick it ten years down the road.

One of Netflix's big problems is that they're really just HBO, but with more subscribers. As we're both talking about, they have some limits on their growth. At the same time, people have generally thought of them like a tech company.

> Netflix (and most companies really) shouldn't expect or aim for endless growth. They should just strive to make a healthy profit and sustain that over time.

The problem is that's extremely hard to actually do. People say this all the time, but often don't think about what it means. The problem is that if you're not trying to grow and change, usually someone comes along and pulls the rug out from under you. 1990s/early-2000s HBO could be described as happy with its premium-cable position and not needing to go for big growth. They would grow as the population grew. Except then Netflix decides to make a huge play: invest in tons of content and a big new streaming platform. Now Netflix starts taking over that space and taking a bigger share of the dollars being spent on video entertainment.

The problem is that customers aren't going to be loyal to a zero-growth, steady-profit company. Someone is going to come along and offer something that might be better - and if you aren't growing and investing, it's easy to get left behind. There's often a bear behind you and you need to keep running.

In fact, when Netflix launched its streaming service, it knew that it had to grow into a content producer and not simply a streaming service. Netflix could have said "we're so happy you love our streaming service, we'll just keep licensing whatever content we can for your subscription fees minus a cut for us." The company would have died. Licensing costs would go up, content producers would launch their own services like Disney+ and HBO Max, and customers that loved Netflix at the start would have left the service.

In fact, Netflix had to grow. Netflix had 7.5M subscribers when streaming started. 3 years later that was 20M. If Netflix didn't grow a lot more, they wouldn't be able to produce the amount of content that would keep customers around. 20M subscribers at $8/mo (the 2010 price and subscriber count) would be $1.9B in revenue per year. Netflix is spending $17B on content per year to keep their subscribers.

Maybe you argue that yes Netflix had to grow back then, but when you're Netflix's size now they could go zero-growth and allow sharing. But what happens when another company sees an opening to eat short-term losses building up a large content catalog on a non-sharing platform? Let's say I can get as much VC as I need and I build up an amazing catalog of content spending $40B per year on content and $8/mo service, but no account sharing on my service. I have way more and better new content than Netflix. I've seen the weakness in Netflix's business model (account sharing) and I've "solved" that issue by disallowing it from the start. Netflix subscribers start canceling (so they're now negative growth) and when my service feels established I can start raising prices to $10, $12, and $15 as time goes on and I've achieved 120M US/Canada subscribers instead of just 74M. Yes!

Zero-growth can certainly work for a while. At some point, it's hard because someone will attack that weakness and you'll end up with negative growth. Maybe what you were originally known for becomes just a feature. How many pieces of software have just become features of your OS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_(software)#Sherlocked.... If Netflix hadn't pursued growth and invested heavily in content to fuel growth, their product (the streaming platform) would simply be copied by competitors who would then have better economics over the content. Heck, all the content companies that didn't invest in streaming saw Netflix eat their lunch for a time.

I think too many people have this idea that you can easily run a stable business with stable healthy profits, but that there's this insane compulsion toward growth. The problem is that there's always others coming to eat your lunch and customers aren't going to be loyal to you as a company. If Netflix hadn't invested in growth, someone else would have and then offered more and better content and then everyone would scream "why isn't Netflix offering as much good stuff as OtherFlix?" Well, you wanted Netflix to be focused on zero-growth stable profits and so another company came along and got better economics so they could offer more to customers than Netflix could.

Right now, Netflix has the most subscribers and that gives them the best economies of scale in the industry. Others are starting to catch up and could become larger if Netflix doesn't keep growing. At that point, it will be harder for Netflix to retain customers since they'll have less money to spend on content than competitors. Yes, we can complain all day about Netflix's content, but they still have the best subscriber count to create content with. That's a huge advantage in retaining subscribers - and an advantage they might lose if they go for zero-growth.

Re: Update on Sharing

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should have shared passwords, at least you could trade a Netflix for a Hulu or whatever. Apple TV is $6.99 a month. Netflix looks to be $9.99 (ignoring the ad-subsidized offering which isn’t really comparable). It is kind of hard to share an Apple TV login (at least I wasn’t able to figure out how to share it without also sharing my whole Apple account), so I guess that extra $3 must be the price of all the sharing g…

It gets a bit more complicated than that, e.g. Apple TV+ doesn't have tiers and the $9.99 Netflix plan won't get you 4k. That said, it's also more complicated than assuming the cost difference is all due to password sharing. Who has the better media agreements? Is a particular player trying to buy market share or focusing on maximizing margin of the share they have? How does having an integrated hardware ecosystem vs…

> $9.99 Netflix plan won't get you 4k

It doesn’t even get you 1080p (for that you need the $15.49 “standard” plan, and 4k comes on the $20 a month plan)

Re: Update on Sharing

#159
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish they had done this from the get go. My family has never shared a password with anybody, and I'm pretty confident that some of their price hikes reflected the reality that they had to deal with password sharers. All I know is that with the fracturing of the streaming landscape, where everything requires a separate $8.99/$11.99/$15.99 (or whatever) monthly fee, downloading Linux ISOs starts to look more and more…

> downloading Linux ISOs starts to look more and more attractive Is that a veiled reference to piracy? If so, why not just say piracy?

It’s a joke as that is one of the few significant non-piracy uses of torrents.
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