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Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

mathalicious.com

151–160 of 192 posts

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#151
I was hoping to find some sort of statistics showing how students are not better off after learning through KA, but I didn't find it. It would have been very helpful in minimizing the bias the article has against KA, because at least it would show a concrete evidence of the claims presented in the article.

KA applied Jane McGonigal's concept in her Ted Talk on game theory, where players are encouraged to continue with a quest through awards and points. This is lacking in traditional education, where only those on top get awards, and those on the bottom do not, perpetuating the problem throughout the lives of the students.

Also, there was no solution, except something around the line that this is not a panacea (nothing is) and that we should reconsider how we think of KA. An alternative or a better idea would have best ended the article that so criticizes how KA is so wrong.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#152
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happy to tell you more. My name is Karim. I'm the founder of Mathalicious and the author of the blog post. I'm also a former classroom teacher and middle school math coach, where I worked with other teachers to help improve instruction by focusing on 1) conceptual understanding, and 2) relevance. It seems like the anti-post comments fall in three categories: 1. Khan is great 2. Mathalicious is just jealous 3. The aut…

"Khan Academy is not great pedagogically" Sal's greatest ability is his empathy. His identification with the kids and elders alike. People turn to Khan Academy after they fail to understand their monotonic Math professors. And they aren't disappointed, at least not me.

I agree that Sal's videos are very engaging and relatable. He comes across and very genuine, and that's a wonderful thing.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In companies of any size, programmers generally go through quarterly, biannual, or annual performance reviews where they are assessed by the manager and peers. Programmers who are overperforming are promoted and given more responsibility (and money), those who are under-performing get coaching or are fired. This is the same as virtually every other job on the planet. You can argue this kind of evaluation is not fair…

I understand your points and they're all fair in the context of programming as a job. Code is code and can be evaluated in an atomic fashion, its objectively either good(correct, efficient etc) or not. How exactly do you accurately assess teaching? Test scores? I've worked at very tough schools. High unemployment, high crime area. Good teaching in this context meant the teacher showed up, made it through the year wit…

Yeah I am fine with doing in-class evaluations, but I think if you think that through you would admit that those are biased in a different way. My point is really more about the importance of doing the kind of evaluation and talent management that every successful private sector company does--figure out who is doing well, and reward them, figure out who is doing poorly and try to help.

Basically I think all this "it can't be measured" stuff is a bit dishonest. My wife is a high school teacher, and amongst her department everyone knows who is good and who isn't, same as any job. The only difference is that that knowledge can't possible have any effect on your career.

In any case, the point you are making about standardized testing is completely beside the point. No one who advocates using testing advocates using only testing for teacher evaluation. And no one advocates using the raw scores. Of course teachers with poor students in bad schools will have worse raw scores then teachers with rich students in good schools. The proposed measurement is virtually always some kind of "value added" score that attempts to control for these variables and measure the teachers impact.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your points and they're all fair in the context of programming as a job. Code is code and can be evaluated in an atomic fashion, its objectively either good(correct, efficient etc) or not. How exactly do you accurately assess teaching? Test scores? I've worked at very tough schools. High unemployment, high crime area. Good teaching in this context meant the teacher showed up, made it through the year wit…

Yeah I am fine with doing in-class evaluations, but I think if you think that through you would admit that those are biased in a different way. My point is really more about the importance of doing the kind of evaluation and talent management that every successful private sector company does--figure out who is doing well, and reward them, figure out who is doing poorly and try to help. Basically I think all this "it…

I think we're in agreement. I totally agree that good teachers need to be rewarded and that and bad teachers need to be identified and helped or sacked. We owe that to our kids.

I never said that it cant be measured. It's just really hard to do it right.

The solution is not to simply use private sector type performance reviews since correcting for differences within the school is difficult let alone correcting for differences between schools.

Measuring teacher performance is a hot area of debate around the world, and a consensus for how to "do it right" hasn't yet emerged.

Lots of questions need to be fairly addressed:

-- Will testing be able to differentiate between school-based and non-school-based influences on student performance?

-- Will testing be able to differentiate between the influences of different teachers on individual students or groups of students? What might be the ultimate extent of increased standardised testing?

-- What criteria are intended to form the basis of a performance-based pay scheme?

-- If the predominant criterion used is to be student progress as measured by standardised testing, what measures will the Government take to ensure the implementation of valid and appropriate testing regimes and instruments?

These questions come from an issues paper published by Australian Primary Principals Association.

Also from the paper:

In jobs where pay is linked to performance: The criteria for determining the payment of additional rewards are to be objectively determined: whether in volume of product or sales, increase in profits, or additional hours worked. More accurately put, the context of the industries in which systems of this kind work well are those where outputs and outcomes are easily, and objectively, quantifiable. This quantification can usually (although not always) be reduced to monetary terms.

So how exactly to we quantify and reward the teacher who helps her students develop skills that 'are not quantifiable'?

PS: In Australia primary and secondary teachers can't get tenure, however given a powerful union it is difficult to sack teachers, and this admittedly is a big problem.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#155
post #64

I'm in fulltime work, and for years have wished I could go back to university and get another degree. It isn't a qualification I want - I don't need it to get on in my career, for example - but knowledge. Now the internet is bringing me and thousands like me the opportunity to learn at our own pace for free. I'm currently taking the Khan chemistry course and loving it. When you criticise Khan for not helping kids as…

This is something I wish universities would provide: open enrollment for adults without the cookie-cutter bureaucratic undergraduate track and the 18-year-old-focused high-bar on-rails admissions process. The "continuing education" programs that do exist are generally stunted and poor. Would it be so terrible if I spent 10 years gradually taking classes in engineering and sciences, perhaps never earning a degree? Why…

If it helps, this is exactly what our school is built around. Every class we create is available both in a degree track as well as ala-carte to students exactly like yourself. You have the same professor and t/a support, grading and evaluation. You also have the same access to the resources in our learning system. We are tuition only (no fees) so we even charge the same amount as the degree seeking students ($100/credit, $400-$500 per class, $5k for masters). And, if you decide to go through admissions and seek a degree, any courses you take would apply towards that degree.

The only real difference between in degree and ala-carte is that degree seeking students will have more options for how to pay for their education. Once we are accredited, a vast array of financing becomes available for students pursuing a degree. Some are good (grants, scholarships, state subsidies) some are not (Student loans), but having options for our students helps a great deal. We structured our program this way because we come from your exact position: why can't I take the classes I want without all the BS?

I think the reason more schools don't do this is that it would expose the true cost of these classes, which at institutions like Stanford or MIT can easily exceed $5,000 per class. Actually, after fees, housing and books, $10k is closer to accurate. The market for $5k classes is not huge, and without putting everything on a gigantic student loan credit card, few rational consumers would pay the price.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#156

The author dismisses Sal's videos as "ineffective instruction": "This paint-by-numbers method of instruction emphasizes procedures — how to do math — but ignores the conceptual understanding that’s central to authentic learning: what math means." This comment by the author is enraging. It is great to be able to understand things abstractly and use conceptual understanding to apply knowledge, but this rarely comes fir…

You'll notice that I didn't actually say that Khan was the "most dangerous phenomenon," but rather our own obsession with it, and the misinterpretation of what it can do. Khan itself is great, but using it for what it wasn't intended to do is a real problem...and one that schools & districts are beginning to pursue more and more.

I don't understand. Who is it that's danagerously obsessed with Khan exactly? My kids' public school teachers had never heard of it.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can you do that a fresh-out-of-college teacher can't? I can plan lessons that include activities tailored for the needs of specific students. Training teachers find this hard and tend to plan for the median. I can plan lessons more quickly than a training teacher, thus liberating time for more tailoring. I can use technology to differentiate delivery and to save time. My feedback to each student is more accurate…

It's interesting to me that all of your examples are also very important aspects of being an excellent Dungeon Master. I never made this connection between teaching and DM'ing before.

I'd expect similar skills are involved for coaching, directing, and executive management.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#158
post #48

Look, Sal just hired Vi Hart to do more cool math stuff, the exact opposite of "wild goose chase" math.

Exactly. Vi isn't a teacher, either. Khan hired her to continue doing what she's been doing for quite some time: Make math inspirational and interesting. She didn't even take any math courses at university. She's just incredibly passionate about its odd applications.

I know more than a few artists who self-describe as math haters who changed their tune (if only briefly) and searched their souls for the true meaning of shapes after seeing a few of Vi's wonderful videos.

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#159

What's the difference between KA's videos and something written? If I don't know something, can't I just look it up on wikipedia or some other website? Or, a book? Here's what I'm getting at: NOTHING about KA is revolutionary. Nada. You can read a book as quickly or as slowly as you like. If you don't understand something, you go back. "Ah, but these are videos. It's an actual human speaking." Well, yeah, the recordi…

I've been wondering about this myself. Why are videos supposed to be better than the same content presented as a textual tutorial (with some multimedia content like animations)?

I can think of several advantages of textual content over video: - you can compare different parts of the text (for example, to discover an analogy) more easily - you can read at your own pace (you can't slow down the video) - skipping between different places is easier (just move your eye instead of using a slider) - it's easier to find the exact place you want to read - textual content can be easily revised by the author, which enables gradual improvement and error correction

Can someone please explain to me what the big deal about video is?

Re: Khan Academy: It’s Different This Time

#160
post #159

What's the difference between KA's videos and something written? If I don't know something, can't I just look it up on wikipedia or some other website? Or, a book? Here's what I'm getting at: NOTHING about KA is revolutionary. Nada. You can read a book as quickly or as slowly as you like. If you don't understand something, you go back. "Ah, but these are videos. It's an actual human speaking." Well, yeah, the recordi…

I've been wondering about this myself. Why are videos supposed to be better than the same content presented as a textual tutorial (with some multimedia content like animations)? I can think of several advantages of textual content over video: - you can compare different parts of the text (for example, to discover an analogy) more easily - you can read at your own pace (you can't slow down the video) - skipping betwee…

Easy. With video you're less likely to lose focus and drift off task. This is of no small importance when you get your material on a computer, with endless distractions at hand.

I haven't watched many Khan videos, but I did complete the Stanford ML-class that used a Khan-inspired format of short videos. To make an HN-friendly analogy, the use of video is like the various "lifehacker" tricks people use to get themselves to focus on written material they encounter online. Some people like Instapaper; I like the Readability bookmarklet and Chrome's Full Screen view with the text bumped up to +2 or +3 zoom. Sometimes I even (gasp) print things out to carry with me for when I have no Internet access.

Of course, some things are better as text. But video has its uses.

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