My U.S. Border Nightmare • Hacker News Board

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#151

Post by pmr_ » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 9:03 AM UTC

tintin wrote: post #144

trevi wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my experience, that seems to be the policy in Amsterdam. I am en EU citizen, but live in the Netherlands. If I fly to the US I can reliably expect lengthy and silly questions. Example: Agent: why did you come the Netherlands six years ago? Me: to study A: where's your student id? M: that was six years ago... A: any other proof you might have? and so on...

Most of the time it's not about your answers but about your reaction.

Cool. A random stranger asks you an incredible amount of horribly silly questions in an aggressive/bored/annoyed tone and they expect your reaction to be something else than "WTF? Leave me alone." If this really were about your reaction to questions the staff at border stations would be trained to look for more than "has a beard, looks around nervously" and the questions would be tailored to actually invoke some observable reaction.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#152

Post by corkill » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 9:03 AM UTC

It's important to frame your story in a way they can understand. e.g. if you are an entrepreneur winging it to the USA. Just make sure that you frame it in terms they understand, instead of relying on your version of the truth to save you.

e.g. most border guards believe you need a 9-5 job for life and if you don't have that you are probably up to no good. So answer with that in mind. Don't include irrelevant details that don't fit what they can understand.

The more stuff you say they don't understand the worse off you will be.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#153

Post by btbuilder » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 9:04 AM UTC

georgieporgie wrote: post #149

How did this guy start a business in the US, as a Canadian? I know there are proxy services where you are a minority shareholder, but that wasn't mentioned. If you start a business, you are an employee of that business. People who say, "I'm self employed," are technically wrong. They are actually employed by the business they started. It's sad that the border between the US and Canada isn't as wonderfully open as it…

Anyone can start an LLC, there's no restriction. There's no law that says a foreigner can't own majority shares in US companies (apart from airlines).

You aren't necessary an employee of a company you start. If you aren't on the payroll, you aren't an employee. If you start a company, then take profits as dividends, you aren't an employee. You may not even be working as you might just be an investor with a bunch of smart nationals you want to hire.

None of this has anything to do with immigration. You might or might not be 'working' but that has nothing to do with being an employee. 'Working' includes working for free.

I know someone who came to the US for 6 months on a B1 visa after explaining to the US embassy he would be 'meeting with engineers', 'negotiating contract' and 'communicating with team back in home country'. This is not working, this is a 'business visit'.

On top of this these are perfectly fine reasons for certain nationals (think western Europe) while someone from India would very likely be declined.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#154

Post by awlo » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 9:05 AM UTC

nraynaud wrote: post #137

wyclif wrote: post #73

never enter the US with an unclear leaving date He makes it sound like this is an evil US policy. But in fact, every country I've ever visited outside the US, and I've visited a lot, asked me when I would be leaving and issued the appropriate visa. For example, if you visit the Philippines, the initial visa is 21 days. You can extend the visa, but again you must inform the government of your leave date. But if you me…

Well, I entrered Argentina with a back tickett in 6 months, and asked for the 90days automatic tourist visa at the border (and got it), got a bit lost and re-entered the international zone with my stamped in passport, the border guy recognize me, and guide me back in the national zone, up to my luggage. I then crossed twice the border with Chile during the week-ends to get new 90 days tourist visa (and it was clearly…

Schengen Agreement, which eliminates border control is in effect in 26 countries (including non-EU countries, like Iceland, Norway and Switzerland, but excluding some EU countries, for example UK).

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#155

Post by beachgeek » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 9:07 AM UTC

adrianwaj wrote: post #124

grecy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t have any rights, right? Exactly. By very definition, when I enter the USA under the visa waiver program, I have to sign the back of the form, which essentially says "You have no rights". (That's actually what the guard was talking about when he asked if I could read) Even when I've applied for a working visa, been interviewed and approved, paid the fees, have an entire page visa in my passport and caught a…

hmm, maybe you're giving off unconscious vibes that create those situations because they know they can get away with it.

I think you are right, even though you got downvoted.

I'm not white. In fact I look like I could be the younger, nerdier brother of Mohamed Atta. I got off my green card and became a US citizen only in 2009 (After I was sure McCain wouldn't become President, and after I was certain they couldn't draft me :-)

My papers have always been in order, and I've never had a problem with any customs or border guards.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#156

Post by pentae » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 9:08 AM UTC

spitfire wrote: post #34

Two hints for easily crossing the boarder: 1. Enter via private plane. The staff at airfields handling private air traffic tend to be less stressed and way more relaxed. I've taxi'd right past the allotted space (Found it eventually) as well as made gitmo jokes with BP - they just laugh. 2. Cross by car at a smaller crossing. Again staff tend to be less stressed and more accommodating. 3. (I took CS!) Have all your d…

As an Australian living in Vancouver who travels to Seattle quite often, the best way is to take the Amtrak. You have to pass immigration at the train station but it's a breeze, and they board the train and check everyones papers are in order, but it's nowhere near as intense as driving across the border or flying.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#157

Post by beachgeek » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 9:19 AM UTC

grecy wrote: post #122

joshAg wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically, the constitution applies to all people in the united states jurisdiction, not just citizens. certain rights, like voting, are given only to citizens, but the Bill of Rights (which gives the right to a lawyer) applies to any person inside the US. Practically, there are a few exceptions to this, eg 4th amendment rights are suspended from everyone at the border and within 100 miles of the border.

>applies to any person inside the US. When detained at a border, a person is not considered inside the US. >Theoretically, the constitution applies to all people in the united states jurisdiction That is absolutely not correct. When I enter the USA on the visa waiver program, it very, very clearly says I have no rights while in the USA. No right to a lawyer, no right to appeal, no right to anything. I must sign that…

JoshAg is right. The Bill of Rights applies to everyone.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20...

If what you said is true and they made you sign that form it doesn't matter because the Constitution is still paramount and trumps your signature.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#158

Post by srj » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 9:24 AM UTC

njharman wrote: post #131

vacri wrote: post #115

Thats right ladies and gentlemen, if I told him the truth he would fight for me, but agreeing to his truth is in conflict with my originally story, and thus I have committed fraud - I believe that is called a catch-22. This reminds me of the difference between Australia and the US in regards to the right to withhold comment. With similar legal backgrounds, there are similar rights about being questioned, but there ar…

The 5th amendment covers US citizens, not foreign nationals attempting to enter country.

Actually I believe foreign nationals are provided many of the same rights that citizens enjoy when within US territory. This comes from the language of the 5th and 14th amendments, they refer to "persons" and not "citizens". Also I recall reading that the 5th amendment right against self incrimination doesn't apply at border crossings for anyone.

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#159

Post by patio11 » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 9:27 AM UTC

maaku wrote: post #102

AgentConundrum wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what kind of training involves setting up a US corp? Y Combinator. The company he mentions has a post on the front page right now mentioning "[their] Y Combinator experience". Calling it "business training" seems an overly simplistic description, but I don't think it's technically inaccurate. It's certainly the wrong thing to call it at the border.

But there's absolutely no question that it involves working in America, and would require a business visa. I'm not sure how one could a) be smart enough to get into YC, and b) not realize that coming to SF for 3 months to work presumably as a C-level director for an American business requires a work visa. EDIT: And neither B1 nor B2 is the right visa, so CBP was right to send him home. The OP needed a working visa.

would require a business visa.

Just to be precise here: it probably requires an employment visa, which is in a different category than business visas. You can come to the US and talk contracts with a company your company wants to do business with: that's (probably) B-1 (business). If you're doing work in the US, you need a work-capable visa. Some options would be TN-1 ("Hello Mr. Canadian professional"), L-1 (intracompany transferee), and J-1 (specialist).

I have some accidental knowledge about this because I used to help finangle things for Japanese folks affiliated with an employer of mine, but if you have any doubt about this sort of stuff, get a lawyer. The very fact of having a lawyer makes it less likely you will get tripped up because they know how the game is played and they will provide consequential bits of advice like "Give anyone asking questions the minimum information required and refer them to the stack of official documents you will carry with you." (Bureaucracies are state machines: you give them the minimum information necessary to get the state transition you desire.) They will also to be able to give advice such as "Given your circumstances, one way we could hypothetically do things is X but the on-the-ground reality would be exactly the same as if we classified it as Y and Y is orders-of-magnitude easier to pass scrutiny for."

Re: My U.S. Border Nightmare

#160

Post by srj » Fri, Feb 03, 2012, 9:35 AM UTC

vacri wrote: post #125

joshAg wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically, the constitution applies to all people in the united states jurisdiction, not just citizens. certain rights, like voting, are given only to citizens, but the Bill of Rights (which gives the right to a lawyer) applies to any person inside the US. Practically, there are a few exceptions to this, eg 4th amendment rights are suspended from everyone at the border and within 100 miles of the border.

Wasn't this part of the hysteria about the Guantanamo Bay detainees; that if they were brought to the mainland, they'd have to be allowed due process?

What eventually gave detainees the ability to file habeas corpus writs was a decision that guantanamo bay is, even as a rented US territory, still under US federal court jurisdiction.