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Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

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Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#151

Post by junofan »

876978095789789 wrote: post #147

Good. I understand that this makes life harder for people with actual ADHD, but it's clear now that abuse of Adderall, Vyvance, and other amphetamines as cognitive performance enhancer is rampant, and not just in software, but in academia, and other parts of society. No one should have to compete with these crypto methheads for jobs or PhD slots. Look at what StackOverflow posted not long ago: https://stackoverflow.b…

Would you say the same about autism? It’s amazing we’ve found an effective treatment for ADHD. Why is it good that patients are often unable to access it? Who benefits?

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#152

Post by opportune »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #3

This seems just a little bit of a conspiracy theory but, giving it credence I would say that it might be because the drugs are ridiculously overprescribed. Particularly for those who just don't need it. In the case of ADD, once there was a medication for it the diagnosis took off like a rocket. Sort of like oxycodone..

Ok, then the DEA should do something like go after pill mills and overprescribers or at the very least apply quotas based on time of starting treatment, ie limiting new diagnoses. The latter should be easy to do because of all the scheduled drug regulations and tracking they have already. Making it so everybody with a medication gets screwed is idiotic.

I don’t even think it’s worth stopping people from taking it personally, anybody willing to fake the medical system could just as easily take street meth instead, which will be a lot worse for society. Reminds me of when the heroin epidemic went into overdrive after the DEA cracked down on pain clinics, then leading to the fentanyl epidemic, and how many deaths? I’m sure it was worth it though

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#153

Post by operatingthetan »

millimeterman wrote: post #144
operatingthetan wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Stimulant addiction is certainly real, but addiction recovery groups are obviously going to self-select for people that have/had a problem. Please re-read how I presented that link carefully. I've encountered several people here claiming that stimulants don't get you high and that they aren't addictive. The point of sending them to that sub was to demonstrate that others have a different experience. I'm not making a…

> I've encountered several people here claiming that stimulants don't get you high and that they aren't addictive. Just because stimulants _can_ get you high and be addictive doesn't mean they will when taken appropriately. The only time I felt any kind of high from my ADHD medicine was the first day I took it. And I quite easily skip taking it on weekends, with the only side effect being that I browse the internet a…

>Just because stimulants _can_ get you high and be addictive doesn't mean they will when taken appropriately.

I'm definitely calling out inappropriate usage, so I don't disagree.

>Plus both cause slight dry mouth, appetite suppression that I have to forcibly eat through, and insomnia if I take them too late in the day. Not to mention the fundamental hassle of taking pills every day within narrow bands of time, something I regularly procrastinate and/or forget.

Yeah the side-effects are not great. Throw in teeth-grinding, compulsive behaviors, irritability, aggressiveness, etc.

>If I had no ambitions or responsibilities, I would be more than happy to throw my medicine away and sit around on my computer all day every day. Unfortunately, I do have ambitions and responsibilities and medication helps mitigate my crippling, career-threatening inability to get things done. So I'll take that tradeoff.

I'm happy to hear about your self control. I wish I were effective as a person naturally, I'm sure you can relate. Unfortunately they don't work for me as well as they once did.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#154

Post by 876978095789789 »

junofan wrote: post #151
876978095789789 wrote: post #147

Good. I understand that this makes life harder for people with actual ADHD, but it's clear now that abuse of Adderall, Vyvance, and other amphetamines as cognitive performance enhancer is rampant, and not just in software, but in academia, and other parts of society. No one should have to compete with these crypto methheads for jobs or PhD slots. Look at what StackOverflow posted not long ago: https://stackoverflow.b…

Would you say the same about autism? It’s amazing we’ve found an effective treatment for ADHD. Why is it good that patients are often unable to access it? Who benefits?

I never said people with ADHD shouldn't receive treatment; I said there are far too many people who don't have ADHD popping amphetamines to get an edge in work or academia, and I'm glad to see they're finally being cut off from their dealers. For some reason, HNers really hate being told that not everyone taking these drugs 100% has ADHD and 100% needs them. Scott Aaronson's post on this (which was discussed here) is illustrative: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo...

> I didn’t realize how much of a psychiatrist’s time was spent gatekeeping Adderall.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#155

Post by the_mar »

Spivak wrote: post #129
the_mar wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you do know that regular Tylenol still works as pain medication? You don't necessarily need narcotics for broken bones.

I think there's two schools of thought on this one. A: Time limited access to narcotics is safe and effective pain management for severe but temporary injuries and I don't exist to suffer in this world -- give me the good stuff. B: If I can reduce my pain into "bearable" with nsiad painkillers then I don't want to take narcotics. I think one of the dangers of B in the real world is that for severe pain doctors are te…

I’m not trying to say that narcotic painkillers are ineffective or necessarily dangerous.

I am saying that many kinds of pain can be managed with OTC medication. There aren’t necessarily two schools of thought. It’s more that if let’s say ibuprofen isn’t helping the pain, it may just be that you aren’t taking enough of it. It is a very effective pain medicine.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#156

Post by hombre_fatal »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #130
hombre_fatal wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO Vyvanse is better than Adderall except for being more expensive. I was on Adderall XR 20mg for 10 years and then switched to Vyvanse 50mg. For me, Vyvanse lasts longer, doesn't have as much of a narcotic peak, and feels like it's more consistently strong for the whole curve. Just putting it out there because some people have suggested that it was an inferior alternative (and it may be for some people). Some peopl…

Just some things to be aware of: - Vyvanse 50 is roughly twice the dosage of Adderall 20 - It’s generally not a good idea to split the XR pills, but they won’t split the same way. As I understand it: Adderall XR and its generics are typically designed as a dual release (either two immediate doses, one delayed; or one immediate and one gradual; both can have the peak/drop off effect). Vyvanse has a more continuous rel…

I’m on mobile so I can’t easily skim websites for more official sources, but you can definitely find my conversion in the wild, like on http://www.adhdmedcalc.com/ — I didn’t make it up.

One annoying thing about stimulants is that your first day taking it is a lot different than your 15th day in a row. I always end up ramping up until there’s some equilibrium with tolerance, else day 1 is way too strong, or day 15 is too weak.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#157

Post by pyinstallwoes »

the_mar wrote: post #124
genmud wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely insane right now with medication... My wife blew out her knee last year, breaking her tibia, patella and femur. Do you know how many painkillers they gave her to take home? 12 pills! They said to come back to the ER to get more if she needed them, before surgery the following week(?!). I think it was like a 3 day supply and we both were like WTF. My 1 year old dog (who is batshit insane, but we still…

I mean, you do know that regular Tylenol still works as pain medication? You don't necessarily need narcotics for broken bones.

Have you suffered excruciating pain for multiple days in a row? Non stop? Like so bad that your muscles recoil in horror that then causes even more pain in a recursive loop of horror?

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#158

Post by pyinstallwoes »

chrsig wrote: post #115
zamnos wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We might be able to get the ACLU to sign on. They've filed a number of lawsuits for patients being denied gender-affirming care in various states. Without getting into a debate about the politics of gender-affirming care, those lawsuits would seem to spell out that denial of life-affirming care that sufferers of ADHD, a federally recognized disability, have experienced could give them legal standing to sue doctors ov…

> those lawsuits would seem to spell out that denial of life-affirming care that sufferers of ADHD, a federally recognized disability, have experienced could give them legal standing to sue doctors over. As a person with adhd, why would i want to sue my provider? They have nothing to do with why there's been an adderall shortage since october. it seems to me the last thing I want to do is make providers feel averse t…

How do they have nothing to do? They’re part of the feedback cycle. They’re the hand that feeds.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#159

Post by eyelidlessness »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #156
eyelidlessness wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just some things to be aware of: - Vyvanse 50 is roughly twice the dosage of Adderall 20 - It’s generally not a good idea to split the XR pills, but they won’t split the same way. As I understand it: Adderall XR and its generics are typically designed as a dual release (either two immediate doses, one delayed; or one immediate and one gradual; both can have the peak/drop off effect). Vyvanse has a more continuous rel…

I’m on mobile so I can’t easily skim websites for more official sources, but you can definitely find my conversion in the wild, like on http://www.adhdmedcalc.com/ — I didn’t make it up. One annoying thing about stimulants is that your first day taking it is a lot different than your 15th day in a row. I always end up ramping up until there’s some equilibrium with tolerance, else day 1 is way too strong, or day 15 is…

I definitely didn’t think you made it up. And yeah that site does match 20 Adderall XR to 50, which is very odd because it also says 20 of the other Adderall is too high for a Vyvanse equivalent. For Adderall XR it also lists a maximum dosage of 30, which is not true. I think they’re treating the XR as two doses, and halving to accommodate that? That is definitely not how I’ve ever had it discussed or prescribed by my doctor, or fulled by a pharmacy. And it’s inconsistent with Vyvanse which is also XR and always treated as a single dose.

In any case if you were taking Adderall XR “20” and it was actually two doses (40) that would be equivalent to the Vyvanse.

Re: Xanax and Adderall Access Is Being Blocked by Secret Drug Limits

#160

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

one thing that is not mentioned in the article, is that for states with mandatory eprescription , this is now an absolute nightmare.

Patients are forced to call the overwhelmed PCP , to get a new RX to be sent to a new pharmacy, while the patient is busy with life/work....in the hopes that patient meds will be found at the new location when the RX finally arrives to the pharmacy. And then patient must repeat the dance in 30 days!

It is absolutely bonkers.

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