Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

Post by stametseater » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 4:51 PM UTC

walkhour wrote: post #26

yks wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the small countries exist and if they cannot rely on big countries for protection against nuclear states, then the only way forward for them is to have their own nuclear weapons. Do you like that world better? Does it lower or heighten the risk of unleashing the “end of humanity”?

I don't accept that dichotomy despite I see value in the argument. Since the invention of nuclear bombs, how many countries without nuclear weapons have lost their sovereignty of those surrounding Russia? Btw if it's either NATO or nuclear bombs, why didn't Finland get nuclear bombs in the last 60 years?

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 4:59 PM UTC

bshipp wrote: post #114

unmole wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The invasion occurred because of Ukraine's movement toward the EU What meaningful move did Ukraine make towards joining EU to trigger an invasion?

You mean beyond the 2014 Maidan Revolution and restoration of the 2004 constitutional modifications that began the process of moving toward the EU? Or the 2019 constitutional amendment that placed joining the EU and NATO as a strategic objective for Ukraine?

Post by lostmsu » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:09 PM UTC

Animatronio wrote: post #92

flexie wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukrainian NATO membership does benefit NATO in several ways: - Ukraine is the only country in Europe to have fought off NATO's main adversary - Ukraine has a large, powerful and experienced army, much larger than those of most NATO countries - Ukraine in NATO will be seen by the older NATO members as a adding another buffer state - Ukraine in NATO will be seen by the newer NATO members such as the Baltic countries or…

- Ukraine is the only country to have fought off Russia, except Finland, Lithuania, Poland, Germany. - Ukraine's army if frankly in tatters, being propped by massive supplies of ammo, weapons and mercs - Ukraine is already a buffer state by virtue of its geographical position - your last 3 points are simply appeals to emotions and in no way arguments for Ukraine's membership.

Post by Animatronio » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

stametseater wrote: post #150

Animatronio wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why couldn't they? If their findings support this theory then they must come forward and say so.

Because they need America as an ally a lot more than they need justice for the vandalism of NS2. Don't like it? Tough nuts.

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Apr 03, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

Animatronio wrote: post #154

dragonwriter wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ukraine is the only country to have fought off Russia, except Finland, Lithuania, Poland, Germany. It (presuming it succeeds) will be the only country to have fought off the Russian Federation, or anything referred to (even if only somewhat loosely) as “Russia” in the third millenium. Fought (and in some of the cases you cited got steamrolled by) the USSR in WWII is... not particularly relevant. > Ukraine is alread…

>Its not if it becomes a Russian satellite. Indeed Ukr has always been in a tough spot. Align with NATO or Russia and become a target for the other - that was the only choice I guess, but it was never explained why actual neutrality was never sought (like Switzerland). The only explanation I have is that both the US and Russia run covert ops to put puppet regimes in place.