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Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

reuters.com

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Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#151
There’s a lot of discussion on what constitutes a Security so I think it’s a good idea to shine a light on this topic.

In 1946, SEC v W.J. Howey Co. (328 U.S. 293) ruled the meaning of “security” as used in the provision of § 2(1) of the Securities Act of 1933 defining “security” as : “For purposes of the Securities Act, an investment contract (undefined by the Act) means a contract, transaction, or scheme whereby a person invests his money in a common enterprise and is led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or a third party, it being immaterial whether the shares in the enterprise are evidenced by formal certificates or by nominal interests in the physical assets employed in the enterprise.”

There are three components:

1. expectation of profits

2. a common enterprise

3. depends “solely” for its success on the efforts of others.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#152

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a p…

For better or worse, the US controls international banking. If we lose that, we essentially lose all of our non-military options for intervening in geopolitical situations. Keeping crypto down is sort of in the US's interest.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#153

There’s a lot of discussion on what constitutes a Security so I think it’s a good idea to shine a light on this topic. In 1946, SEC v W.J. Howey Co. (328 U.S. 293) ruled the meaning of “security” as used in the provision of § 2(1) of the Securities Act of 1933 defining “security” as : “For purposes of the Securities Act, an investment contract (undefined by the Act) means a contract, transaction, or scheme whereby a…

And Coinbase's position is that none of the crypto assets it lists meet that test. For the coins Coinbase lists:

  - Criteria #2 is debatable
  - They don't meet criteria #3
  - Or they don't meet criteria #4
Lots of coins look like commodities. They represent a digital asset, not ownership in a common enterprise or a loan.

Coinbase believes that all of the tokens they list are securities. The SEC will need to tell Coinbase specifically what it believes they are doing wrong. At the very least, if they eventually file suit they will need to make a specific accusation.

It feels like a lot of people have knee-jerk crypto=bad reactions. But read their press release - it really sounds like Coinbase is trying their best to comply with U.S. regulation, and the regulators aren't doing their jobs.

And last - For digital assets that do look like securities, the SEC provides no way to register them, and thus vaguely implies that Americans can't own digital securities. That's not their decision to make - they either have to do their job and regulate crypto securities, or get congress to ban them.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#154

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a p…

> I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates.

> In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs.

> But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a problem and the government needs to come in and "protect" me from it. Why is that, I wonder?

If the casinos advertised slot machines as an investment, would you still wonder?

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#155

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a p…

Everyone knows what they are doing when gambling etc

But nowadays crypto is being pitched as an investment to the layperson who doesn’t understand the risks and isn’t being told those risks by the exchanges. It’s those folks the SEC is trying to protect.

That and prevention of larger market issues that can arise from unregulated financial services, ie FTX

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#156

In case you're wondering if the system is rigged, she obviously knew this was coming... https://www.coindesk.com/business/2023/02/23/cathie-woods-ar... and then yesterday... so convenient... https://www.businessinsider.in/stock-market/news/cathie-wood... Down 8.16% today... https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/COIN/

She sold after the stock blew up to high levels. I was considering buying puts yesterday myself.

Oh, it’s 1.6% of her stake, too. Basic portfolio management.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#157

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a p…

The SEC's position is that some crypto coins are securities. Gambling, hookers, political donations, and non-profit donations are all regulated.

Securities are regulated even more tightly because it's *really* easy to commit fraud and fleece people of their money by lying about investments. Capitalism works because most people trust that they can make investments without being defrauded.

With hookers, non-profit donations, political donations, drugs, overpriced art, etc., the consumer knows more or less what they're getting. Lots of crypto coins are scams, and it's reasonable for the government to regulate them

That said, as Coinbase complains, the SEC is doing a really bad job of regulating crypto securities in a usable way.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#158
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or coin base could actually hire and listen to them like a business trying to operate legitimately and honestly. Instead it’s the usual crypto playbook of “move fast and break things” and then play dumb.

They have been trying for years, the SEC does not want to engage in good faith discussion. They wrote a response about it here: https://www.coinbase.com/blog/we-asked-the-sec-for-reasonabl...

You think Brian Armstrong is innocent that he's operating in good faith? We all know that all of the coins on Coinbase are either securities, ponzis, or yet to be rug-pulled scams. Sometimes all 3.

Coinbase and Brian Armstrong is defrauding the public.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#159

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a p…

The SEC's position is that some crypto coins are securities. Gambling, hookers, political donations, and non-profit donations are all regulated. Securities are regulated even more tightly because it's *really* easy to commit fraud and fleece people of their money by lying about investments. Capitalism works because most people trust that they can make investments without being defrauded. With hookers, non-profit dona…

Are sneakers, pokemon cards, and art collections regulated?

What if I buy some sneakers thinking I'm going to flip them and then I lose money?

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#160
post #78
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or coin base could actually hire and listen to them like a business trying to operate legitimately and honestly. Instead it’s the usual crypto playbook of “move fast and break things” and then play dumb.

You're being intentionally disingenuous. Coinbase's entire value is tied to them being the safest, most legal crypto brokerage.

> the safest, most legal crypto brokerage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damning_with_faint_praise

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