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Alternative facts: How the media failed Julian Assange

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Re: Alternative facts: How the media failed Julian Assange

#151
post #57

There's authoritarianism, where government knows what's best for everyone and keeps secrets to "protect" its citizens. Then there's democracy, where the government is open and honest so the people can make informed decisions on how best to run their government. In my opinion, one of the best ways of identifying an authoritarian is to ask them their opinions on Snowden or Assange.

Which governments would you consider “open and honest” democracies?

Re: Alternative facts: How the media failed Julian Assange

#152
Julian Assange has not been charged with exposing secrets or being inconvenient for the powers that be. He has been charged on the quite plausible accusation of helping Chelsea Manning illegally acquire these secrets. There are lines journalists (and you can debate if he is a journalist) are not supposed to cross, this is one of them.

Most of the negative consequences in his life stem from him running from this accusation, and from the rape charges in Sweden. He'd like to frame it in a different light, understandably...

Re: Alternative facts: How the media failed Julian Assange

#153
post #73
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not denying the Russian invasion is unlawful. Reread what I wrote. You are proving my point.

Calling for diplomacy in a war of aggression where the aggressor has claimed annexation of the defender's territory means... what? What is there to negotiate?

You're all for diplomacy, except during wars.

Re: Alternative facts: How the media failed Julian Assange

#154
post #2

It's pretty clear what happened. People started to view the reporting of Wikileaks as evil or fake as soon as it negatively impacted $theirpoliticalside. Once these perceptions fell into place it was easy to disregard all the good, villify him personally, and ignore the authoritarian and illegal actions taken against him.

The use of $theirpoliticalside as if it's a variable is pretty interesting. Because in this case, it's almost a const.

Re: Alternative facts: How the media failed Julian Assange

#155
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the start, wikileaks was a partisan project masquerading as a righteous cause. Those of us old enough to remember their original releases (like “Collateral Murder”) remember that wikileaks was always about building a narrative rather than exposing the truth. Suggesting that people started thinking negatively about wikileaks once it came for “their side” is painfully revisionist. Many people believe wikileaks is…

Imho, if WikiLeaks had focused on being the Craigslist of information, without attempting to market themselves, they would have gotten a lot more public support. You can't transparently publish information and have an opinion.

> Imho, if WikiLeaks had focused on being the Craigslist of information, without attempting to market themselves, they would have gotten a lot more public support.

Turns out history has gifted you with a test case. :)

What you are describing was literally the early version of Wikileaks[1]!

The ostensible problem was that it generated little to no public awareness[1].

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks#Submissions

Re: Alternative facts: How the media failed Julian Assange

#156
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ukraine is right on the russia's border. Their economies and cultures are intertwined So, according to your logic, a British invasion and occupation of USA would not be justified, but a British invasion and occupation of The Republic of Ireland would be? > 2014 when the US formented a revolution there. Propaganda nonsense. https://www.thebulwark.com/what-really-happened-in-ukraine-i...

The Bulwark is a neocon publication by Bill Kristol. He still refuses to apologize for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He is part of the war machine that is perfectly happy to see perpetual war. He was a solid republican, but he was all too happy to ditch everything he said he believed in to embrace the cultural issues of the left. The only thing he kept the same was his hawkish views on foreign policy. That shows…

That's the point. The people behind The Bulwark don't believe "this coup nonsense" because they are pushing for war there. All the writers there are always pushing for military solutions to everything.

Re: Alternative facts: How the media failed Julian Assange

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely: "Between 2001 and 2002, Belmarsh Prison was used to detain a number of people indefinitely without charge or trial under the provisions of the Part 4 of the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001, leading it to be called the "British version of Guantanamo Bay"." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Belmarsh

It’s 21 years later now

Perhaps there should be a time limit when people should forget that their government imprisoned people without trial or charges, however I suggest it should be greater than 21 years.

Re: Alternative facts: How the media failed Julian Assange

#158
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bulwark is a neocon publication by Bill Kristol. He still refuses to apologize for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He is part of the war machine that is perfectly happy to see perpetual war. He was a solid republican, but he was all too happy to ditch everything he said he believed in to embrace the cultural issues of the left. The only thing he kept the same was his hawkish views on foreign policy. That shows…

I already know who Bill Kristol is, and the people (plural) behind The Bulwark are, thanks. It's not hidden, it's here https://www.thebulwark.com/about-us/ I'm not a fan of their political project, my point is that even they don't buy this "coup" nonsense. I do not think either that he "ditched everything he said he believed in" when their political party changed and they did not, that's rather a specific framing fro…

Huh? Dan Crenshaw has been all in on this war in Ukraine. He even openly admitted that it was a golden opportunity because we could fight a major geopolitical adversary on the cheap by just sending weapons with no American casualties - completely minimizing any Ukrainian casualties.

Re: Alternative facts: How the media failed Julian Assange

#159
post #2

It's pretty clear what happened. People started to view the reporting of Wikileaks as evil or fake as soon as it negatively impacted $theirpoliticalside. Once these perceptions fell into place it was easy to disregard all the good, villify him personally, and ignore the authoritarian and illegal actions taken against him.

From the start, wikileaks was a partisan project masquerading as a righteous cause. Those of us old enough to remember their original releases (like “Collateral Murder”) remember that wikileaks was always about building a narrative rather than exposing the truth. Suggesting that people started thinking negatively about wikileaks once it came for “their side” is painfully revisionist. Many people believe wikileaks is…

How could they be partisan when "both sides" have accused them repeatedly of being against them? Case in point, Collateral Murder was celebrated by Democrats and then when they leaked the Hillary emails now all of a sudden Democrats thought Wikileaks was evil. The information was true, the only thing that changed is they didn't like the what it showed.

That's not Wikileaks fault, maybe we should hold those in power accountable regardless of how we feel about their stances on other issues.

Re: Alternative facts: How the media failed Julian Assange

#160
post #121
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His words were initially taken out of context; he meant that allies stopped pressuring Ukraine into a peace deal after mass graves were uncovered in Bucha. That's the only source for this conspiracy theory. It goes against your whole narrative of how the US is forcing Ukraine into a war.

There was still a basis on which talks could have been opened up. The fact they were entirely nixed shows they are not interested. 200,000 Ukrainian deaths when they can't even define what victory looks like beyond slogans. They are trying to fight a war on the cheap so long as no American casualties happen, but they are perfectly fine so long as they are Ukrainian casualties. At least, they could at least define wha…

> There was still a basis on which talks could have been opened up. The fact they were entirely nixed shows they are not interested.

It is important to note that the party least interested in a workable peace deal at this point is Russia. After all, they annexed last October a large swath of Ukrainian territory in such a rushed manner they couldn't even properly explain what they annexed. Given that Russia seems uninterested in any peace deal which does not include Russian annexation of at least some portions of Ukraine, any argument that what Russia really cared about was NATO enlargement is laughably incorrect.

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