Live data from Hacker News

Ahrefs saved $400m in 3 years by not going to the cloud

tech.ahrefs.com

151–160 of 166 posts

Re: Ahrefs saved $400m in 3 years by not going to the cloud

#151
post #145
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahrefs is like my white whale. I hate them. I can't stop myself from battling them. I hate the fact that they ignore status codes, I hate the fact that they ignore crawl rate specs in robots.txt, I hate the fact that they crawl URLs on my sites that have never and will never exist and keep coming back to do it again.

Why not use Semrush?

You don't have to "use" ahrefs for them to crawl your website

Re: Ahrefs saved $400m in 3 years by not going to the cloud

#152
post #145
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahrefs is like my white whale. I hate them. I can't stop myself from battling them. I hate the fact that they ignore status codes, I hate the fact that they ignore crawl rate specs in robots.txt, I hate the fact that they crawl URLs on my sites that have never and will never exist and keep coming back to do it again.

Why not use Semrush?

I don't use ahrefs or semrush, and in fact, semrush's crawlers behave even worse.

Re: Ahrefs saved $400m in 3 years by not going to the cloud

#153
post #147

I kind of wish they hadn't. Ahrefs claims to be in the "SEO" business, which as far as I'm concerned, has helped ruin web search, and indeed, the culture of the web in general. Also, Ahrefs bot doesn't handle some things very well. I made an "infinite web site" in PHP a while back, and used Apache mod_rewrite to send every Ahrefs request to the infinite web site PHP program: https://github.com/bediger4000/infinite-fa…

> Ahrefs bot really freaked out, unlike some professional bots like Google's, and even Yandex' bot. > Also, Ahrefs bot doesn't handle some things very well. But that was... 7 years ago?

Do you really think they act any differently? They're in the SEO business, which is directly parasitic. They're not going to spend money improving their software, that's a cost center, not a money maker.

Re: Ahrefs saved $400m in 3 years by not going to the cloud

#154
post #2

I recently heard from a senior IT person that the company for which he works could save many millions by moving a certain application from a hairball of micro-services at AWS to a much simpler architecture on colocated servers... but the company's management doesn't want to hear any of it. In fact, management wants IT to move every legacy application that's not yet on the cloud to the cloud, specifically to AWS, beca…

Retail cloud setups provide standardization that hosting on bare metal may not.

The irony of it is most of the cloud services are open-source technologies packaged up to be easy to use and administer from a web interface.

Maybe if someone came up with a set of tooling in AWS to use many lightsail VMs to provide more of the basic AWS services, it could be a way to get the best of both worlds.

Re: Ahrefs saved $400m in 3 years by not going to the cloud

#155
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m thinking more about evolution within the space of automated configuration tools. I use Ansible at home as a replacement for the 1990s style of sysadmin where you manually managed your servers (which I did until the mid 2010s). Yet, I’m aware that Ansible is not declarative. It’s looks declarative, if you take your glasses off and don’t think too hard about it, but the key to understanding Ansible is really that t…

Why not K8s? Or other stuff?

The additional complexity does not bring sufficient advantages. I’d like to spend my time writing content for my web site, not configuring container orchestration tools which will sit idle for years at a time.

Re: Ahrefs saved $400m in 3 years by not going to the cloud

#156
post #71

Ahrefs could probably save another few hundred million if they didn't repeatedly visit the same links over and over indefinitely to find the same error codes or a binary file that they surely don't care about. I see them in my logs for my podcast hosting service, hitting the same 404s for months and months. They end up hitting audio files and downloading (or attempting to download) many gigabytes of content each day.…

Ahrefs is like my white whale. I hate them. I can't stop myself from battling them. I hate the fact that they ignore status codes, I hate the fact that they ignore crawl rate specs in robots.txt, I hate the fact that they crawl URLs on my sites that have never and will never exist and keep coming back to do it again.

Why not just block any requests with Ahrefs user-agent?

Re: Ahrefs saved $400m in 3 years by not going to the cloud

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's nice to have a completely different type of work a couple of days per year. I've found there's generally developers who are into building custom gaming PCs or Raspberry Pis or whatever who are interested to see the servers and lend a hand installing new ones.

I actually am into hacking at home but I'd definitely not play around with my business' production environment. Wouldn't know where to start if sh* hits the fan.

Not sure why you're being downvoted. But I love building PCs too. There's no way I'd want to put together my company's server hardware though even though the basics are the same.

I do not want to be on call 24/7.

Re: Ahrefs saved $400m in 3 years by not going to the cloud

#158
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure you're very competent at managing server hardware. But if I'm a seed stage startup, I'd politely decline your offer. It’s not either AWS or “bring your soldering iron”. Self-hosting K8s on managed hardware is still insanely cheaper than AWS. GitOps, infrastructure as code, DevOps platforms, CNCF best practice setups are entirely doable without paying the Amazon tax. If your lead DevOps quits, you’re right,…

Running K8S is itself a giant tax. The complexity is absurd and the components are not as reliable as having a literal team of people who are responsible for ops and making a service feature complete. > The last time I worked for a company that was invested in AWS, their AWS budget corresponded to five full-time senior developers in running costs. This means nothing to me -- what is the TCO of the AWS deployment vs.…

> what is the TCO of the AWS deployment vs. the TCO of the non AWS deployment?

I can only speak of one PHP/TypeScript app with a poor performance profile: from $250/mo to $5.000/mo in running costs, not counting the migration. The team that made the app couldn’t maintain the Helm chart or the Terraform resources, adding to a DevOps team bottleneck that appears to limit how teams innovate (kind of how like creating new branches was expensive on CVS).

> How replaceable are the dev ops engineers who are running your K8s/managed infra?

I haven’t met a competent AWS DevOps engineer who wasn’t also competent to run the clusters; it’s just that they prefer not to.

> People moving to cloud isn't irrational. There's a reason that it's pervasive.

Yes, it’s made really solid. AWS makes sense to reduce operational risk at a large scale.

The price is not my main argument against using AWS, although you’ve gotta make good money to justify the expense.

My motivation is to own one’s own infrastructure. I like to work on things that are both important and contented enough that you can’t, as a principle, outsource the operation.

Re: Ahrefs saved $400m in 3 years by not going to the cloud

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a new type of conflict of interests. I assumed only good intentions from IT guys. But you're right that some of them may be more interested in complexity of used solutions, bigger budgets, and their personal job security than in company results and sustainability.

It's not like they want complexity, it's the latter: the "nobody ever got fired for buying AWS" problem. They stated it explicitly. They're terrified of anything counter-cultural or that seems to be going against the tide because they want to be seen as in the future and not stuck in the past. Fashion, FOMO and weakness combine to yield a "cloud at any cost" mentality.

Wow! It sounds even worse.

Re: Ahrefs saved $400m in 3 years by not going to the cloud

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually am into hacking at home but I'd definitely not play around with my business' production environment. Wouldn't know where to start if sh* hits the fan.

Not sure why you're being downvoted. But I love building PCs too. There's no way I'd want to put together my company's server hardware though even though the basics are the same. I do not want to be on call 24/7.

How are the basics the same? No one builds their own server.
Post reply on HN