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Revenue is easy, profit is harder

edge.ceo

151–160 of 175 posts

Re: Revenue is easy, profit is harder

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jack Dorsey often says. You don't need to be first to market. You just need to be best to market. Demonstrated through Twitter, and now Cashapp

I'm reminded of the scene in Margin Call[1]: "There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhy7JUinlu0#t=6m22s

That line was specifically about financial markets, not products.

Re: Revenue is easy, profit is harder

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, "customer acquisition cost" seems to imply that that customer is now "yours" I’ve confused a few people this ways in conversation lately and I’m not sure what the solution is, but it’s a case of saying, “even the most optimistic scenario is still very bad”. Keeping someone’s attention is never going to be cheaper than getting it in the first place. The best you can do is spend a maintenance cost to retain…

Thanks. Subscriptions always seemed to me like they were for the business' benefit, not for mine. I'm sure it does make the growth models look really good; you've got this nice, regular stream of money coming in. However, it does nothing for the customer. I refuse to subscribe to anything, as a rule. Deliver some value, and I'll pay for it when I need it. YMMV.

I believe it makes business loans easier to get.

Have you never spent money at a company precisely because you hope it’ll stick around? Companies you only really need every three years have a hard time sticking around, and you may find that when you need them most they’re having a going out of business sale.

Patronage. Patronage is more than a purely transactional relationship with a company.

Re: Revenue is easy, profit is harder

#153
post #52

So I am a Silicon Valley outsider. I live in the northern EU and work with project management in the construction industry representing the owner. It’s mostly infrastructure, roads, water. Old industry, conservative, we basically hate new things. On my spare time I tinker with my computer, learn assembly or whatever. Hence HN. I have recently started a course in corporate finance at my local uni because my new role r…

> a lot of theses articles are pretty basic corporate finance One take: yes, and venture-backed companies often forget or ignore the basics of corporate finance. Another take: orthodox corporate finance isn’t tailored for start-ups. If you’re developing a product, GAAP income is meaningless. So we bootstrap interim financial metrics, e.g. eyeballs and ARPUs and DAUs (oh my!). In truth, the latter dominates at the ear…

That’s all nice in theory. Name one tech company that has gone public and been consistently profitable in the last decade?

AirBnB hasn’t had a long stretch of profitability. But I will give it the benefit of the doubt that it can maintain profitability.

Re: Revenue is easy, profit is harder

#154
post #112
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most innovation of internet and computer-related business come from Silicon Valley, so it seems reasonably clear to me that investors there are doing the right thing. To be honest, I find it hard to name any highly successful EU companies whose main business is internet-based or software-related, at least not in the b2c sector. There are some, but the major players seem to come from the US and more recently also from…

Skype, Spotify. But both grew with SV venture. EU venture is not as good for early companies because they are much more conservative.

And Spotify is a piss poor business, has never been profitable and its costs scale directly with its revenue.

It’s contractually obligated to give its suppliers 70% of its revenue and its major competitors consider its whole reason for being just a tiny feature.

Streaming music is a “feature not a product”

Re: Revenue is easy, profit is harder

#155
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we at least agree that any profits above zero are actually profits? And the question of just how profitable is a different financial metric?

No? Because if you need tons of capital to make a minuscule profit your company is worth nothing. (A company has to outperform at least the interest people can get on bonds plus some equity premium.) Amazon could make a significant profit, if Bezos wanted. But that’s a different question.

That'll be Return-on-Capital.

Re: Revenue is easy, profit is harder

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far, my experience has been that business as a start-up is basically about surviving long enough to make a profit. Of course, some ideas are just bad, but I'm convinced loads of start-ups that failed could have been made to work given sufficient time. This doesn't work so well if you take a pile of capital, but if you go for organic growth it is more plausible to survive hand to mouth for a while.

>> Of course, some ideas are just bad, but I'm convinced loads of start-ups that failed could have been made to work given sufficient time. Are some businesses under capitalised? Sure. Could "loads" be saved with more capital? Well yes, for some definition of "loads". But annedotally I'd suggest that "most" are just bad ideas. Or perhaps more accurately "incomplete ideas". To be a success business you need; A) a prod…

Incomplete is probably a better assessment. Survival until they make it is probably really about survival until they learn everything they need to know and develop the sales channels etc to be able to make it.

Re: Revenue is easy, profit is harder

#157
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly was literally invented to illustrate the deceptions of capitalism. Great game.

It's a great tool to teach about the evils of monopolies, but a terrible game.

It teaches how capitalism obviates monopolies.

Re: Revenue is easy, profit is harder

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reminded of the scene in Margin Call[1]: "There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhy7JUinlu0#t=6m22s

That line was specifically about financial markets, not products.

In my opinion, this line is valid for business in general.

Re: Revenue is easy, profit is harder

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of theses articles are pretty basic corporate finance One take: yes, and venture-backed companies often forget or ignore the basics of corporate finance. Another take: orthodox corporate finance isn’t tailored for start-ups. If you’re developing a product, GAAP income is meaningless. So we bootstrap interim financial metrics, e.g. eyeballs and ARPUs and DAUs (oh my!). In truth, the latter dominates at the ear…

Actually the problem with startups is that they focus on corporate finance too much. When in reality they should be acting like a small business e.g. florist. Often these startups are failing because of basic cash-flow management.

And even a florist looks, either explicitly or implicitly, at the same things. As soon as a company reaches a certain size, measured in employees, funding or revenue, you need at least the basics of corporate finance.

Re: Revenue is easy, profit is harder

#160

GAAP accounting is for stable cash flows in well understood businesses. Bootstrapping (funding growth with revenue) isn't the silicon valley way; the silicon valley method is as follows: 1. get funding 2. grow team/build product 3. raise more funding and find product market fit 4. seize control of market / make large top line moneys 5. repeat 3/4 a as necessary. 6. acquisition/IPO, shareholders payout.

As soon as a company IPOs, or uses a SPAC, it is either GAAP or IRSF accounting. And it doesn't matter what the comoany might think about that.
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