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Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

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Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#151

Post by smoldesu »

x0x0 wrote: post #130
smoldesu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The side-effect is in the eye of the beholder. Apple claims they lock down the App Store for security, and a convenient "side effect" is that their stranglehold on platform transactions makes them upwards of $80 billion annually. From the perspective of the shareholder, it's obvious that Apple's motivations are more driven more by profits than ensuring universal security. Regulators worldwide agree!

It's not obvious at all. All of us who still have to help people in our lives -- particularly elderly parents -- are very grateful for a platform where the users are not expected to be sysadmins. Which they will do quite badly. We have a 25+ year history of trying to get most people to not install random spyware/crapware/viruses on their computers, and it's fair to say the results are a complete and total failure. Ex…

iOS isn't impervious to malware either. Pegasus was deployed effortlessly to tens of thousands of iOS devices, and the App Store had nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, Apple still green-lights exploitative gambling and lootbox services as long as they're promised a cut of the loot.

There is merit in pursuing a more secure future for computing, but there is zero merit in doing so alone.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#152

Post by waffletower »

While you can develop personal apps on MacOS, in contrast to iOS, without the nuisance of expiring provisioning certificates, there are other maintenance issues endemic to both platforms. I have been masochistically maintaining two applications that I originally coded on NexTstep (1992) and OpenStep (1997) for MacOS. While they still run, over the years I have noticed a large amount of unnecessary API churn. Of course there are benefits to API improvements which build new functionality, but in addition, Apple is unique in its penchant for random deprecation of mid-level APIs that serve only to induce bit-rot into applications intentionally. I imagine the cost of this practice is very high to organizations that support Apple applications. I once worked as a professional Apple ecosystem developer (and this practice is one of many reasons I no longer do so) and we typically set aside large amounts of project scope for annual Apple API maintenance.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#153

Post by blihp »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #7
the_common_man wrote: post #2

One of the reasons I never buy apple products. They seem to control everything and cannot support such a company

How do you get around it though? Genuinely asking. I guess you try to source your own parts outside of controlling companies and only work on open source OS's and software run by super transparent groups? It just seems like a ton of work for something that might not even be viable. I don't know how I could possibly operate outside of apple, microsoft, google, etc. all of which have massive ethical issues. To be very…

It all depends on how far you're willing to go. If you merely object to Apple's iron fist approach, you've got Windows for desktop/laptop and Android for mobile. For some of us, that's not good enough and so we opt for a fully open source (typically Linux) solution. The advantage is that this gives you a world of options (think SBCs and all sorts of IoT-scale doodads) but often has the disadvantage of lacking polish and being on your own when things go wrong especially if you opt for one of the lesser used devices/platforms. (i.e. non-x86/ARM or a unique configuration/form factor)

One thing that will absolutely not work: buying Apple products and thinking they'll change direction on this. They are immensely profitable so from their vantage point everything is fine. Short of large numbers of customers jumping ship or government action, things are going to keep going in the current direction.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#154

Post by bloppe »

smoldesu wrote: post #104
massysett wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't view the iPhone and iPad as "computers" or "personal computers" any more than I view my cable TV set-top box or Sonos speaker that way. Both are very powerful devices with Linux operating systems. But I don't expect to be able to program them. The iPhone is an appliance that can download "apps" that Apple permits. When I want a "computer" I open up my MacBook.

How does letting people freely sideload apps conflict with this philosophy? You can still use your iPad as the world's most expensive e-reader if you want, letting other people run Linux on it doesn't somehow ruin your experience.

[flagged]

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#155

Post by bobleeswagger »

sneak wrote: post #94
bobleeswagger wrote: post #32

$99 per year is pennies if you are truly spending time with the platform. Apple could charge 10 times this and still make away like bandits, I think $99 is a good price point because it weeds out folks looking for an easy system to hack at. This is good.

The problem is not the $99, it's the fact that you can't publish anonymously. You must show ID to pay and participate, because of payment cards and the dev program signup.

Why should Apple allow anonymous publication on a marketplace which they are ultimately responsible for?

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#156

Post by flohofwoe »

PaulHoule wrote: post #140
flohofwoe wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were hardly any free compiler toolchains outside the UNIX world in the 80's. But it's not the 80's anymore, time has moved on.

Every micro in the early 1980s came with BASIC except for a few very early ones that only had a front panel machine language monitor.

True, but BASIC on home computers wasted so much potential that it was more or less just a gateway drug (about 100x slower than hand-written assembly code - and even assemblers cost money - so for free options you only had the choice between a very slow BASIC program, or typing hex opcodes into the machine ;)

PS: ok, except Acorn/BBC BASIC which had a frigging inline assembler :)

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#157

Post by coliveira »

Over the years I figured out that developing an app targeting a particular device is not a good use of your time. You're probably just working for a particular company (Google, Apple, MS) for almost free. The best approach is to use a language that is as free as possible from companies (C++, Common Lisp, for example) and develop your code independent of the device. Then, if you really need, pay somebody else to create a UI for a particular platform. This may be more difficult in the short term, but your code will at least survive for more than a couple of years and you'll not go crazy.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#158

Post by dachryn »

coliveira wrote: post #116
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $99/yr is a ridiculous sum for the "privilege" of publishing in Apple's walled garden It’s a token amount, just enough to prevent spammers from creating thousands of accounts. It’s $99 for your entire organization for a year. Go check what Microsoft charges for a Visual Studio license per seat, per year. $99 doesn’t even buy you 1 hour of a developer’s time. Even if you develop apps a a hobby, this is not a large a…

> It’s $99 for your entire organization for a year. This seems reasonable when you look from the point of view of a corporation. But hobbyists are single individuals, not corporations. So this basically makes development a privilege for corporations or for people in the first world for whom $99 is nothing.

there are education discount programs for students etc..

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#159

Post by bobleeswagger »

fulafel wrote: post #126
rcstank wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's $8.25/mo if you save up for it each year.

Let's say you are from Egypt (~$1400 median income) or South Africa (~1600). You have already saved for a long time to get a used iPhone for $100. It might be possible with enough effort but you can't say it's not a big barrier.

If you can find any Apple developers from Egypt or South Africa making median wage, I will happily pay for their yearly developer fees. Good luck.

Re: Apple doesn’t want you developing hobby apps

#160

Post by mmastrac »

flohofwoe wrote: post #125
mmastrac wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you have to re-upload the app every week as this article is complaining about?

There was a somewhat recent change that "on-device testing" only requires a regular Apple Id account (and you even get the privilege to report bugs for free to Apple! /s). Only works for up to 8 apps per device installed at the same time (which sucks for my case because I have dozens of small demos to test). But yeah, those "on device testing apps" expire pretty fast if I remember correctly (I mostly just debug on th…

That's very interesting, but holy crap they've made it difficult to find information about that. I cannot find any other references to this outside of the page you linked with the details.

Perhaps this is a "regulatory interference" play to say "hey look - we have a free version!"

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