I didn't realize how nice I had it with Clojure until I went full-time Java.
Java is almost 30 years old.
How does it compare in your mind with, say, Rust and Kotlin?
Clojure Turns 15 panel discussion video
151–160 of 226 posts
Re: Clojure Turns 15 panel discussion video
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want an easy win, one thing Rich mentioned in a talk is - if he had to do Clojure all over again today - he would put transducers at the 'bottom'. For data transformation this makes the underlying collection type largely immaterial. > real structs I'm not even sure if value types are conducive towards immutable, persistent data structures. I'm certainly excited for project Valhalla but I'm not sure if Clojure,…
Clojure users fighting against static typing are on the wrong side of history. They are fighting a side for all the wrong reasons, and they will lose. There is a reason why all dynamically typed languages today are scrambling to add some form of static typing to their language, but never the other way around. Static typing does everything dynamic typing does, but better, faster, allow automatic refactoring, faster pr…
I also believe the same thing.
However, to be fair, Clojure's response to types is `org.clojure/spec.alpha`, and if you give it a really good chance, you'll see that it brings a lot to the table.
It doesn't change that I believe strong typing (a Haskell or Idris/Agda-like flavour of it) to be the future, but what it did change was how I thought about type systems and how to write and test programs.
Re: Clojure Turns 15 panel discussion video
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm intrigued, why do the PMs and such care? (I'm assuming EMs is Engineering Manager?)
Clojure is really good at self-selecting for people that really care about innovation in programming languages. The other jobs in a tech company care about innovation in their domain. They rarely align. So for every weird, cool innovation you see, the productivity is immediately lost because people equally care about how you deal with state on app startup, or routing, or database interaction. And since none of those…
> Clojure is really good at self-selecting for people that really care about innovation in programming languages.
This is a very pompous, pretentious, self-serving, statement.
How about Rust? C++? Kotlin? F#?
You find people interested in these things in all languages, and people not interested in these things in all languages.
Re: Clojure Turns 15 panel discussion video
#154I love Clojure (and have touted such in past comments), but it suffers from a glaring problem: every library is half done and/or abandoned. What happens is you end up modifying an existing library to fit your particular problem space. I needed a web framework. None of them just did things in a "simple way". I ended up branching an existing one and have altered it (very heavily) to fit what I need. It's now my go-to f…
One thing I learned from Clojure is that you really don't need a lot of libraries to get work done.
Edit: if you're going to downvote this comment, I challenge you to also reply with how many years of professional Clojure experience you have.
Re: Clojure Turns 15 panel discussion video
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you want an easy win, one thing Rich mentioned in a talk is - if he had to do Clojure all over again today - he would put transducers at the 'bottom'. For data transformation this makes the underlying collection type largely immaterial. > real structs I'm not even sure if value types are conducive towards immutable, persistent data structures. I'm certainly excited for project Valhalla but I'm not sure if Clojure,…
Clojure users fighting against static typing are on the wrong side of history. They are fighting a side for all the wrong reasons, and they will lose. There is a reason why all dynamically typed languages today are scrambling to add some form of static typing to their language, but never the other way around. Static typing does everything dynamic typing does, but better, faster, allow automatic refactoring, faster pr…
Or maybe it isn’t a war, there isn’t anyone fighting, and there’s nothing to be lost.
Re: Clojure Turns 15 panel discussion video
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been working with Clojure for the past decade, and it's still the most enjoyable development experience I've had. Once you experience using an interactive workflow where you can see the results from the code you're writing live, it's really hard to go back.
Can you recommend a good YouTube video that demonstrates this? I'm used to writing code incrementally in Python via the IPython REPL. I've also used Twisted's Manhole to get a REPL inside an already-running Python server process. But I believe you're referring to something substantially richer than that.
it's easy to run a lisp (clisp on linux) or scheme (guile on linux) REPL and then paste in example code and see what it does, there's lots of examples out there. Then I'd say try playing with "call with current continuation" if you want to see mind-bending elegance (or let's say it's an elegant implementation of something you'll never be sure you understand)
Re: Clojure Turns 15 panel discussion video
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you recommend a good YouTube video that demonstrates this? I'm used to writing code incrementally in Python via the IPython REPL. I've also used Twisted's Manhole to get a REPL inside an already-running Python server process. But I believe you're referring to something substantially richer than that.
For me, it's a combination of having a REPL and having a good interactive interface between the editor and the REPL. Typing forms into and evaluating them in the REPL is one thing, but typing them into your editor file and evaluating them from there in the REPL is much more useful. (I can't fairly say one way or the other whether that's possible/common in IPython.) Here's a short one to give a taste of that: https://…
You can do interactive development in Python using emacs and the “elpy” package. I’ve only used it for small scripts, so I can’t say how it compare to Lisps.
Re: Clojure Turns 15 panel discussion video
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
Clojure user here since 2010(my earliest Clojure project on Github), and while I agree with the fun point, the iceberg wart for me at this point is the inelegance of the interface hierarchy and its structure behind the scenes. Clojure's forward-facing interface (a hundred functions that operate on one data structure) ended up breaking down for me at some point and became 10 functions on 10 data structures and those d…
I've been programming with Clojure since 2010 and using it in production almost as long and I hardly ever care about the internal types so I'm really curious as to how you went down that "rabbit hole"? What sort of problems were you solving that necessitated delving into the implementation details behind the abstractions? I've only needed to dig into that occasionally for a handful of specific situations (for example…
What is the idea behind immutable variant of a ResultSet? Since it maintains a database cursor, does it make sense to have it immutable?
> A ResultSet object maintains a cursor pointing to its current row of data. Initially the cursor is positioned before the first row [0]
0 - https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/sql/ResultSet...
Re: Clojure Turns 15 panel discussion video
#159I have the feeling that after Nubank bought Cognitech, Clojure has gone to stagnation. I mean, i feel that promoting and improving Clojure is no longer a priority. And another think that stinks me everytime Cognitech talks about Clojure they have to bring to the table Datomic. They tried to push Datomic on my company long time ago when they do some consultancy job at my company. You can skip all the talk, because is…
I thought you might be trolling. But then when I looked at the Clojure repo on Github https://github.com/clojure/clojure the last commit was 2 months back. There is some merit in your arguments.
Re: Clojure Turns 15 panel discussion video
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been working with Clojure for the past decade, and it's still the most enjoyable development experience I've had. Once you experience using an interactive workflow where you can see the results from the code you're writing live, it's really hard to go back.
Can you recommend a good YouTube video that demonstrates this? I'm used to writing code incrementally in Python via the IPython REPL. I've also used Twisted's Manhole to get a REPL inside an already-running Python server process. But I believe you're referring to something substantially richer than that.
Try Hy (https://hylang.org). Best of both worlds if Python floats your boat.