Money Laundering and AML Compliance • Hacker News Board

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#151

Post by novok » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 9:21 AM UTC

pjkundert wrote: post #17

matheusmoreira wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then, they wonder why people are being driven to use Cryptocurrency... If only. Normal people are only buying crypto to speculate. They drive the price up to absurd levels and then write it all off as a scam when it corrects. Meanwhile good technology like Monero remains marginalized instead of replacing the USD as it should.

You seem to be speaking for ... a lot of people you can't possibly know -- such as me, and every person I work with and deal with on a day to day basis in the Crypto R&D field. As for Monero -- don't complain, let's bring it mainstream by building something . Specifically: something that state-level interference can't stop, even if they're quivering in rage that it exists! That's what us "speculators" who code every…

Always kind of wondered why monero onlyfans or state weed hasn't happened much. Work that is legal, but the financial system makes an absolute bitch to actually financially transact for.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#152

Post by t0suj4 » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 9:30 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #126

etherael wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So crime was not at a manageable level prior to say 1970, when none of these AMLKYC laws existed? And crime has not been at a manageable level after say 2008 when crypto came into existence and made it impossible to actually enforce? Man, for that brief shining window we really had perfection.

Yes, actually, the American mafia has declined severely since its heyday. There are surely many reasons, as it's part of a broader decline in crime in recent decades, but the increased difficulty of cleaning dirty money is part of it. And crime has definitely gone up because of cryptocurrency. I'm not sure how much it has affected the more traditional sorts of crime, as I don't think it's much of a help in turning di…

The Mafia just bought politicians and now operate their rackets according to law. Can't commit something illegal when it's explicitly legal.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#153

Post by mikaraento » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 9:38 AM UTC

ghayes wrote: post #94

wcunning wrote: post #15

The best thing I've read on this topic is from Matt Levine at Bloomberg, restated in his newsletter on Wednesday: "In general, the chief compliance officer at any company has a dial in front of her that she can turn to get More Crime or Less Crime, and at a normal company — a bank, for instance — her job consists of (1) turning it most of the way toward Less Crime, but (2) not all the way, and (3) acting very contrit…

The referenced article: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-01-05/coinde...

https://archive.is/eoiwi

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#154

Post by MilaM » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 10:01 AM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #82

psobot wrote: post #3

Every post from patio11 is such a joy to read: precise, exact, descriptive, and entertaining. I'd love to understand where his writing style comes from and how to emulate it.

I think it's a witty and knowing but rather opaque writing style that's designed to make you work. Often worth the effort, but he could use an editor or beta tester to help dial it back a bit. There were a few times when I almost sent him a tweet that he got some logic backwards, but after rereading, I realized that I had misread it, that it's right but confusing.

Maybe it's because English is not my native language, but I had a very hard time to get the gist of both articles. I'm not even sure I have learned something concrete about KYC/AML. The only take away I have is that it's a deliberately opaque set of rules and that neither the regulator nor the banks have a complete picture of what is actually going on in the financial system. And that it's leaky as hell.

But maybe that is all the author tried to convey to the reader, just in an opaque way :)

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#155

Post by omgomgomgomg » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 10:27 AM UTC

malux85 wrote: post #9

irusensei wrote: post #4

It is expensive to keep a crime and corruption department on your banking institution. If you are dealing with a millionaire who is related to some oil mogul in Russia you can do your due diligence and Vladimirovich can hire a team of accountants to prove that his business is legit and not at all related to the corporativist oligarchy his uncle runs. Or it might be, but the risk vs reward is good enough to turn a bli…

Also - wait until Ivan has put 10k in your system, then ask for the documents and refuse to give the money back hoping he will abandon it. - Lawful evil AML companies

It does not really work like that and the bank rarely gets to keep that money. If the SOW is not sufficiently established, the funds are either sent back to the origin of the funds or a SAR is filed, where another regulatory body will decide about the next steps. In any case, the custodian bank does not make anything from doing this.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#156

Post by omgomgomgomg » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 10:30 AM UTC

irusensei wrote: post #21

malux85 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also - wait until Ivan has put 10k in your system, then ask for the documents and refuse to give the money back hoping he will abandon it. - Lawful evil AML companies

I think I’ve heard someone calling this shotgun KYC. They will allow you to deposit but as soon as you show signs of using that money they take it as hostage until you prove you are not a criminal.

Its well defined laws and aml directives, there is little ambiguity but those are the laws our dear politicians have passed.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#157

Post by omgomgomgomg » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 10:34 AM UTC

josephcsible wrote: post #27

cmeacham98 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common with offshore online casinos: you can deposit and lose your money, but as soon as you try to withdraw winnings the KYC rolls out and you better hope you're not a US citizen because you weren't even supposed to sign up in the first place then.

Why is "if you gambled but we found out you weren't allowed to gamble, we'll take back your winnings but not give back your losses" legal? Shouldn't it have to be either "we'll reset everything back to before you gambled" or "everything you already did stands; you just can't do anymore (and are probably in trouble)"?

Usually, it is all deposits minus all withdrawals are refunded. The casino will be in the red here, due to provider costs.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#158

Post by MomoXenosaga » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 10:38 AM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #128

pyuser583 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An innocent buyer would just say “I sold my home of 20 years to some company - Perwinkle LLC of Bermuda. Pretty strange, but not my problem.” The bank would report it, and in theory the feds could track down Periwinkle LLC. But tracking down holding companies consumes precious resources, and would be strategic, not just legal, decision. The US is obsessed with having a clean financial sector, but doesn’t care one jot…

As separation of concerns, this sounds reasonable and efficient: why should it be the financial sector's job to weigh whether someone is good or bad? Better to make finance focus on ensuring there are quality, documented links where legally required... and then perform the judging elsewhere (e.g. legal system, FBI, journalism). That the US (and especially certain states) permits opaque corporate structures is a diffe…

I'd go further and say it isn't the job of Western countries to fix corruption. If Putin wants to fleece his people he can take his billions to a European bank.

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#159

Post by lebed2045 » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 10:47 AM UTC

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #139

datavirtue wrote: post #93

Nowhere these articles written by chatGPT? If an editor were involved the articles would be about a paragraph each or they they would have been put through the shredder. I have been in the industry for years. The author said nothing enlightening or important.

Stopped reading those articles long ago. Straight to the comments section.

How do I know your comment is handwritten and not chatgpted?

Re: Money Laundering and AML Compliance

#160

Post by andbeyond » Sat, Feb 11, 2023, 11:08 AM UTC

My issue with these laws is that they only seem to apply to individuals with little means and not to big corporations.

JP Morgan for instance, sends Swift transfers that are not AML compliant. They don't give a toss and nobody will ever look into their practices.

But if you're a small merchand on an e-commerce platform, you'll get a horde of lawyers harrassing you with KYC.