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Stop developing this technology

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Re: Stop developing this technology

#151

Post by bondarchuk »

cwillu wrote: post #18
jakelazaroff wrote: post #3

Regardless of what I think about this technology in particular, I want to respond to this line from the second comment: [1] > on the contrary, it must be developed. No, it mustn’t. There’s not a gun to your head, forcing you to do this. You want to develop this technology. That’s why it’s happening. Technology isn’t inevitable. It’s a choice we make. And we can go in circles about whether it’s good or bad, but at lea…

From the main page: “Communication groups [...] • mrdeepfakes - the biggest NSFW English deepfake community”, which strains my assumption of good faith debate regarding their ethics.

If someone makes a deepfake on their own computer, watches it, and doesn't share it with anybody, I don't see how that's markedly different (morally) from just imagining the same thing. Some people have a very strong visual imagination and others don't have it at all, it's only fair if they can use a technological substitute.

Also some entertainment works by artificially instilling a desire which cannot be fulfilled. If people can use deepfakes and masturbation to defuse that desire it might be a moral positive for them.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#152

Post by KyeRussell »

KyeRussell wrote: post #148
jakelazaroff wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we agree that “someone would have done this anyway” is a poor justification for one’s actions? That’s what you say when you 1) recognize that you did a bad thing, but 2) don’t want to be blamed for it.

You’re speaking to the wrong audience. “Someone else would do it anyway” is how everyone here justifies doing unethical shit at FAANG and refusing to earn less than $300k/yr base because “that’s just the industry”. I have no respect for anyone that says this shit with a straight face.

It should also be said that anyone that makes this argument immediately loses their right to complain when governments need to step in and regulate.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#153

Post by makapuf »

type0 wrote: post #130
rbanffy wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it mustn’t. Let's imagine you have a horrific face malformation, or went through a terrible accident that left you disfigured. Why not allow you to pass for an ordinary person, at least in video calls, so you can have a somewhat normal life? It took me two minutes to come up with a legitimate use for this technology. I imagine there are many more only a couple minutes away.

It is much more useful for privacy concious people not wanting to give Zoom more data for their face detection database. All in all it's good for humanity when technology can counteract other evil tech that will spy on you.

you could use avatars / 3D models (possibly a few realistic ones) for those, no need for deepfake technology from a single photo.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#154

Post by Aeolun »

pavlov wrote: post #87
sneak wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing about producing or consuming deepfakes suggests bad faith. You might not like the art, but deepfakes are not harmful.

“NSFW deepfakes” literally means “porn with real people’s faces inserted.” Maybe that’s an art form, but it’s also clearly potentially harmful in the same way as revenge porn, teenage nude selfies, and other cases where regular people and porn intersect.

This sounds like something literally 90% of humanity does in their imagination at some point in their lives. It's inevitable that someone is going to do it in a video when the tech becomes good enough.

I'd say it's not the thing itself that's a problem, it's publishing whatever you create as if it's real. There are many things in life that are potentially harmful, but are part of everyday life since nobody actually harms anyone with them.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#155

Post by nix23 »

candiodari wrote: post #62
pfortuny wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Tell that to Einstein, who just before Hiroshima realized it was not such a good argument. That is a nice piece of history. Ethics is important. And one consequence is: I may die but at least it was not because I made it possible.

While Einstein regretted working on nuclear weapons, the work they did there is equally responsible for the many lives saved by nuclear power, which he also appreciated. Also, it was the first 20% of the work towards nuclear fusion. Technology is not evil or good. Even this technology could be great. Jacky Chan, for example, is not going to make any more movies. But I want more of those movies. This very technology w…

The Nuclear bomb in itself was a lifesaver in the way that the US nor the USSR ever dared to attack each other (directly) because of the potential consequences.

Without Nuclear bombs a "hot" 3rd world-war would have probably happened.

Also no country who has nuclear weapons was ever (directly) attacked.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#156

Post by low_tech_love »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #3

Regardless of what I think about this technology in particular, I want to respond to this line from the second comment: [1] > on the contrary, it must be developed. No, it mustn’t. There’s not a gun to your head, forcing you to do this. You want to develop this technology. That’s why it’s happening. Technology isn’t inevitable. It’s a choice we make. And we can go in circles about whether it’s good or bad, but at lea…

The problem is that there is a big confusion about building the technology and using it in some specific, wrong way. Surely anyone here will agree that building the technology itself should not be forbidden. You can do it for some valid reason, or simply for fun. It’s not for anyone to judge or stop you from doing it. Those who use it for some nefarious reason must then answer for that. Guns are the obvious comparison (although maybe not the best) as in they are needed for protection also. But another example is how explosive devices and technologies can be used in a variety of useful ways, such as mining, terraforming, etc. Using someone’s image without their consent is already a crime and applicable in many other non-DF scenarios.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#157

Post by mrparrot »

pjc50 wrote: post #105
jl6 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% agree. The 1% is for the potential for deepfakes to solve blackmail. If producing deepfakes becomes trivial, any blackmail threat can be dismissed with “Whatever, I’ll just say it’s a deepfake”.

This is not how humans work. False statements about someone damage that person, even once everybody knows they're false.

But with this argument you could blackmail someone whether or not you have some evidence.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#158

Post by [deleted] »

dusted wrote: post #6

I think it's a good thing. Not that it's being used for evil things, but because it should help make it obvious that you can't trust anything you see on a screen. Using fake media to trick people into believing anything used to be a privileged reserved for nation states and the ultra rich. Now that _ANYONE_ and their cat can do it, it should follow that nobody can believe anything that's on a screen anymore (this com…

[deleted]

Re: Stop developing this technology

#159

Post by CyborgCabbage »

rbanffy wrote: post #123
yipbub wrote: post #11

I'm convinced that this idea that technology is completely neutral is wrong. It is not neutral in the face of human psychology. The human species is a different animal that the human individual, and it is powerful, but does not make truly conscious decisions. Once you let the genie out of the bottle, a wish will be made. A technology might not be inherently bad, but neither are knives, and we don't leave those lying…

> It is not neutral in the face of human psychology. It's worth noting that nuclear weapons seem to have prevented more deaths than they caused. The MAD doctrine has prevented direct confrontation between the superpowers and limited their military conflicts to proxy wars. And this is a technology that has almost no application beyond vaporizing cities almost instantaneously.

This is a fair point, but we have no way of knowing how close we came or will come to a nuclear apocalypse, so the risk posed by nuclear technology is difficult to evaluate.

Re: Stop developing this technology

#160

Post by ChewFarceSkunk »

rbanffy wrote: post #117
jakelazaroff wrote: post #3

Regardless of what I think about this technology in particular, I want to respond to this line from the second comment: [1] > on the contrary, it must be developed. No, it mustn’t. There’s not a gun to your head, forcing you to do this. You want to develop this technology. That’s why it’s happening. Technology isn’t inevitable. It’s a choice we make. And we can go in circles about whether it’s good or bad, but at lea…

> No, it mustn’t. Let's imagine you have a horrific face malformation, or went through a terrible accident that left you disfigured. Why not allow you to pass for an ordinary person, at least in video calls, so you can have a somewhat normal life? It took me two minutes to come up with a legitimate use for this technology. I imagine there are many more only a couple minutes away.

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