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New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

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Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#151

Post by Dylan16807 »

Mawr wrote: post #142
macintux wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the recommended 2 second following distance is insufficient when the vehicle in front of you comes to an immediate halt and there’s no room to switch lanes.

The recommended following distance is "Never get closer than the overall stopping distance." [1], so even if the car in front somehow went from 70mph to 0 instantly, you should be able to stop. [1]: https://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/stay+safe+stay+back/HE_...

Expecting people to follow that far is like expecting people to read every TOS.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#152

Post by int_19h »

herodotus wrote: post #2

I have a VW Golf and it has what it calls "adaptive cruise control". What makes it different from my older (simple) cruise control is that it will slow down and speed up again as necessary without my intervention. For example, if I set the speed to 70 mph and it gets close to a car ahead that is only going 65 mph, it will slow down and maintain what the software believes is a safe distance. Similarly, if a car in an…

I might be missing something but wouldn't it be perfectly fine to override it in the exact same cases you'd override regular cruise control? Sure, many of those might not be necessary; but if you do it, the experience shouldn't be any different from what you're used to, no?

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#153

Post by throwawayacc3 »

leaving wrote: post #105

This mirrors my experience of driving in America. People do not adjust their speed or following distance to the conditions. They drive like they have some sort of right to a road free of obstructions and to drive at the speed limit or above, no matter the circumstances. It's as if they expect the speed limit sign to adapt to the circumstances. They have the attitude, "Well if I need to slow down, why does the sign sa…

[flagged]

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#154

Post by int_19h »

marktolson wrote: post #29
herodotus wrote: post #2

I have a VW Golf and it has what it calls "adaptive cruise control". What makes it different from my older (simple) cruise control is that it will slow down and speed up again as necessary without my intervention. For example, if I set the speed to 70 mph and it gets close to a car ahead that is only going 65 mph, it will slow down and maintain what the software believes is a safe distance. Similarly, if a car in an…

My friend was using adaptive cruise control while towing a caravan. A car merged in front of him, his car applied heavy braking to maintain the desired distance (not necessarily to avoid a crash) but didn't compensate for the weight of the caravan. Almost lost traction, lead to heavy swerving. He's vowed to never use it again.

From the description it sounds like your friend was driving a car that could not safely perform emergency braking. Is that even road-legal anywhere?

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#155

Post by barbazoo »

katbyte wrote: post #91
barbazoo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a popular opinion but I think it's wrong. If they weren't all so close together some of that could habe been avoided. The Tesla indicated for a very long time telling other what it's gonna do.

> . The Tesla indicated for a very long time 3 seconds is a very long time? Also: 3 seconds of turn signal is a clear indication of "i am going to change lanes and fully come to a stop"? And then turning off all signals and coming to a full stop without hazards on is a clear indication of "i am stopping"?

Indicating to change lanes and changing lanes should have been enough for the traffic behind to slow down and create a safe distance between each other. People just drove too close to each other.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#156

Post by larkinrichards »

MBCook wrote: post #99
jayd16 wrote: post #82

This is an honest question here but why is the pile up so bad if driving conditions were ideal? The next 6 drivers were not keeping a safe distance or paying attention?

Have you watched the video? Its freeway speeds, a decently busy freeway, at a tunnel entrance that’s curving. Plus the car switched to the passing lane and abruptly stopped. This wasn’t going straight on a highway stopping in the same lane the driver was already in. I can understand how the conditions probably made it worse.

This is hardly the "passing lane," it's just following a left lane exit onto treasure island. the entire bridge is a splits into three different freeways when it touches down in Oakland. You pass in whatever lane is moving fastest.

The tunnel is not curved. it's straight.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#157

Post by giantg2 »

MBCook wrote: post #113
giantg2 wrote: post #51

I'm kind of surprised that the feds allow it since the vigilance issue is pretty much a given.

I think, like much of technology’s history, this is one of those things where something got rolled out before anyone thought it was necessary to write legislation about it.

There doesn't really need to be any legislation. It's handled via NHSA regulation (or whatever alphabet soup it is).

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#158

Post by pensatoio »

If autopilot starts braking even slightly and it shouldn't, I immediately take control. For this to happen, the driver clearly was not prepared to take control in any way. It's like driving on cruise control with your legs crossed.

The automated cruise control and lane-keep on my previous car, an Audi, would occasionally do crazy things too. The hyper-focus on this being Tesla's fault continues to baffle.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#159

Post by Kon-Peki »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #6
loopdoend wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you just tap the brake to disengage adaptive cruise?

The problem isn't that disengaging the system is difficult. The problem is that deciding whether to disengage is difficult. If you're catching up to a slower car, maybe you should disengage the cruise control. Or maybe you shouldn't. You can't tell. This means that cruise control goes from being something that relieves stress on you to something that causes additional stress.

Every single adaptive cruise control system I've seen allows the driver to set a follow distance that is far too short. For example, on my Subaru, 4 bars is really the minimum "comfortable, relaxing" amount. But if traffic starts to get a little heavy, 3 bars works a little better, but you do have to be more vigilant. If you are down to using 2 bars or a single bar, you had better be hyper vigilant. I can't imagine a safe way for the car to operate with those settings, unless perhaps they are useful for stop-and-go interstate traffic.

To make matters worse, every single car salesman I've encountered has the feeling that doing everything to the extreme is the best way to sell cars. Which means that is is totally, completely believable that the OP with his Golf had the salesman set it to a minimum follow distance and then not explain that they did this or how to change it!

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#160

Post by Spooky23 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #151
Mawr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recommended following distance is "Never get closer than the overall stopping distance." [1], so even if the car in front somehow went from 70mph to 0 instantly, you should be able to stop. [1]: https://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/stay+safe+stay+back/HE_...

Expecting people to follow that far is like expecting people to read every TOS.

Dude, we’re talking about explaining away a Tesla failure here.

Pedantic analysis of DMV regulations is absolutely essential. Clearly any dolt practicing defensive driving would anticipate the self driving car cutting him off and hard braking.

Stories like this make people think that full self driving is actually a car the drives itself fully. The car is safer than any human and by critically thinking about this we are preventing sales and essentially killing people, since Tesla has fewer deaths per mile travelled.

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