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Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

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Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#151

Post by [deleted] »

crazygringo wrote: post #88
jdiez17 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This decision, as I understand it, renders large swathes of tech service revenue models untenable. To be honest, good riddance. If it is no longer possible to offer users a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation (without explicit consent [0]), it forces companies to 1) innovate in order to offer such services for a sustainable price, and 2) encourages competition fro…

But why do you think legislation should be the one forcing that choice on everyone, rather than the market allowing consumers to choose? The issue isn't what we personally like or prefer for ourselves -- it's more about when we think it's legitimate to take away the right of businesses to experiment with business models, and of consumers to be free to enter into the tradeoffs they prefer. Why shouldn't a consumer be…

[deleted]

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#152

Post by cguess »

Nextgrid wrote: post #123
crazygringo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do you think legislation should be the one forcing that choice on everyone, rather than the market allowing consumers to choose? The issue isn't what we personally like or prefer for ourselves -- it's more about when we think it's legitimate to take away the right of businesses to experiment with business models, and of consumers to be free to enter into the tradeoffs they prefer. Why shouldn't a consumer be…

Legislation is used in cases where individuals either can't make that choice or if individuals' choices would cause negative externalities for some people. That's how we get food safety laws, employment laws, waste disposal laws, etc. With regards to food safety for example, the vast majority of people don't have the equipment nor knowledge to be able to test whether the food they just bought isn't contaminated, so i…

> the vast majority of people don't have the equipment nor knowledge to be able to test whether the food they just bought isn't contaminated,

Back in the late 1800's and early 1900's food companies actually tried to convince people that this was the right thing, instead of, you know, just selling unadulterated food. The argument was literally "if we just put 'borax' on some sort of ingredients list people can choose for themselves." Women's magazine and cookbooks explained to house wives how to chemically check their food for contaminates (which required a lot of interesting acids) which included fun things like formaldehyde and liquified cows brains (to simulate "cream" on top of really water-downed milk).

Just to be clear, this only helped the companies and in certain circles ~1850-1906 (when the pure food act was passed) is called "the great stomach ache" because people were essentially eating poisons in every meal.

People are awful at understanding their own risk profiles, especially in the face of advertising.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#153

Post by AdrianB1 »

janosett wrote: post #136
quotemstr wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be honest, good riddance. If it is no longer possible to offer users a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation Is it right that a tiny but loud minority be able to ban these ad-supported services for all of society? Going by revealed preferences, most people don't consider targeting advertising to be "spying and psychological manipulation". If they did, usage patte…

These policies stem from elected officials, as far as I can tell. How else would you propose they make policy decisions? My impression is these decisions are related to genuine concern about how tech companies collect and use personal data.

While I agree with the decisions, I must point that elected officials are far from being representatives for the people for a long time; in many countries they are just puppets for their political parties and elections are a choice between all bad options.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#154

Post by whimsicalism »

cwkoss wrote: post #139
whimsicalism wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, only if the total amount of wealth in the US is equivalent to the EU does your second statement follow. Obviously this is not the end alm be all of how good life is, but there are numerous studies indicating the average of goods and services provided to the poorest 20% in the US is higher than the amount of goods and services provided to the median EU citizen.

Link those numerous studies, sounds like BS

https://mises.org/wire/poor-us-are-richer-middle-class-much-...

Here's one analysis, but there are others. I would prefer a less conservative source.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#155

Post by Nextgrid »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #15
Nextgrid wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we somehow ended up in a situation where spyware got effectively decriminalised doesn't mean it's a good situation especially in the long-term. If nobody is willing to pay for your product, maybe it shouldn't exist?

Can Meta cover its operational costs without personalized ads? Re: its ability to exist. Or is the issue that it’s unpalatable to wall st and investors and advertisers without ad personalization driven growth

The profiles and text communication, yes absolutely. That has been a solved problem on much less powerful & more expensive hardware than what we have now.

Media might be a bit of an issue, but maybe less so if the lack of ad revenue means there is no incentive for publishers to pump out infinite quantities of low-quality media-heavy content.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#156

Post by e_i_pi_2 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #137
wintermutestwin wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation /agreed Trading trinkets to the natives for land is the most apt analogy I can think of. In a capitalist society, we should be able to set the price for something that we own. My data is worth way more than the cost to provide the trivial services that Facebook, Gmail, etc provide.

If you think that the price is not worth it, you are free to refuse the transaction. The EU govt here is requiring the counterparty to provide you with the service even if you refuse the transaction.

I think this is like predatory lending laws - you can be forced to give someone a loan at a reasonable price, even if you can convince them to pay way more. The same argument also works for voluntary slavery - I think people have the right to say "even if it's initially consensual, it still seems like an abusive business model that we shouldn't allow"

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#157

Post by nindalf »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #82
Nextgrid wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This, among other things of course, helped sentence millions of people to poor and deprived lives for centuries. Wealth inequality is much worse in the US than Europe, so relatively speaking, "poor" in EU is still much better than "poor" in the US.

Just because someone has more material items than you doesn't mean your life is worse or that you are poor. Poverty isn't about how little you have to others - its about being able to provide and sustain yourself and your family in society. As far as I understand it, poverty is much less now than 100 years ago.

That’s lovely. It sounds like the kind of thing that would work well in a fortune cookie.

Meanwhile, in the real world, we find that that’s not how happiness works at all. People want more than they used to have or they want more than the people around them. If they don’t, they aren’t happy.

You can blame capitalism all you like, but this is a fundamental tenet of brain chemistry. No matter how well off we are, our dopamine level adjusts to that.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#158

Post by Auracle »

bmitc wrote: post #140
whimsicalism wrote: post #6

[flagged]

> requires continuous free-riding off Is it not these tech companies doing the free riding off of people’s data?

I’ve never understood the argument that it’s the individual people’s data. If you go and run an ad on Facebook you’ll see that the targeting is largely stuff individuals have volunteered. It’s their sex, relationship status, what brands they “follow,” etc.

It would be “my” data if Facebook were digging through my phone, looking at all my photos, and offering targeting based on that. It’s their data if I’m effectively telling them “hey, this is who I am.”

Off-site stuff is more wishy-washy and I think an opt-out there makes sense.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#159

Post by Nextgrid »

whimsicalism wrote: post #137
wintermutestwin wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation /agreed Trading trinkets to the natives for land is the most apt analogy I can think of. In a capitalist society, we should be able to set the price for something that we own. My data is worth way more than the cost to provide the trivial services that Facebook, Gmail, etc provide.

If you think that the price is not worth it, you are free to refuse the transaction. The EU govt here is requiring the counterparty to provide you with the service even if you refuse the transaction.

Only if part of that transaction involves non-material things such as personal data. If you accept actual payments in money, you are welcome to refuse service to anyone. The solution is easy and straightforward.

Re: Meta prohibited from using personal data for advertisement

#160

Post by 411111111111111 »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #126
jdiez17 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This decision, as I understand it, renders large swathes of tech service revenue models untenable. To be honest, good riddance. If it is no longer possible to offer users a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation (without explicit consent [0]), it forces companies to 1) innovate in order to offer such services for a sustainable price, and 2) encourages competition fro…

>a "free" service in exchange for extremely invasive spying and psychological manipulation /agreed Trading trinkets to the natives for land is the most apt analogy I can think of. In a capitalist society, we should be able to set the price for something that we own. My data is worth way more than the cost to provide the trivial services that Facebook, Gmail, etc provide.

> In a capitalist society, we should be able to set the price for something that we own.

Congrats, you just legalized slavery with that genius idea.

There have to be limits on everything. You just disagree with the chosen line.

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