Docker on MacOS is slow and how to fix it • Hacker News Board

Re: Docker on MacOS is slow and how to fix it

#151

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 7:54 AM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #147

dwaite wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends a lot on what you are trying to accomplish. The inability to get something akin to VT220 terminal access and shell scripts on a POSIX-based system without resorting to a virtual machine (a la WSL2) is a deal-breaker for me. The steps for using scripting languages (e.g. Node, Python, Ruby) is typically entirely different on Windows than it is from all other server and desktop platforms. For those who can spend…

WSL2 is not a virtual machine, it's a subsystem . It's basically the opposite of WINE. You can run all of your favourite languages nearly identically to Linux on Windows either via Docker or WSL2. > Windows requires emulation to run aarch64-based containers. Except on Windows for ARM Making Windows and Linux the only platforms with ongoing support for both ARM and Intel CPUs, unlike MacOS where Intel support will eve…

Technically, WSL version 2 _is_ a VM based technology:

"WSL 2 ... uses the latest and greatest in virtualization technology run a Linux kernel inside of a lightweight utility virtual machine (VM)."

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/compare-versio...

WSL1 is not a VM design, but that design reached its limits.

A VM doesn't make it bad - I don't do a lot with WSL but I like it a lot. It's not slow or limited.

Re: Docker on MacOS is slow and how to fix it

#152

Post by allarm » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 7:57 AM UTC

howinteresting wrote: post #146

allarm wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Visual Studio Code can even operate in "remote" mode where it tunnels into a Docker container or Linux server and acts as-if the remote target was the local machine. Of all things in this comment this one is the funniest, because Emacs was able to do it for years (decades?).

If you're talking about tramp, its design is quite a bit worse than vscode's or intellij's remote support.

Probably, but point is it’s not something revolutionary. I’ve been using tramp for quite some time and despite some quirks it’s a working solution.

Re: Docker on MacOS is slow and how to fix it

#153

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 7:58 AM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #116

jiggawatts wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but falls badly in the coding & tooling department. That's more perception than reality, often from people who simply don't know how to use Windows. Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, and IntelliJ IDEA blow any Linux text editor out of the water for developer productivity. For Linux workloads there is the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL 2), which now even supports GUIs with GPU acceleration! Visual Studio Code can…

If you code in Windows and deploy on Windows, I think it's fine. Java/C#/Python/Microsoft C++ are well supported. If you're coding in Windows and deploying on Linux, it's not ideal. Sure there's WSL2 which kinda sorta helps for a lot of day-to-day stuff. But often weird errors creep in, my favorite being the MS-DOS EOL instead of the Unix EOL, which breaks Bash scripts, leading to developers saying: "But it worked fi…

I have come across all of "Java/C#/Python" recently, and all of them were "deploy on Linux" most of the time. Yes, including modern C#.

Re: Docker on MacOS is slow and how to fix it

#154

Post by lioeters » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 8:03 AM UTC

wkat4242 wrote: post #120

i386 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after building and selling developer tools for a decade, it always surprises and enrages me to see how miserly developers are.

It's also our employers. They don't like to spend money on dev tools because the suits don't see the benefit. There's no glossy Gartner magic quadrant BS for every niche development usecase so they think they're throwing money into the fire.

> glossy Gartner magic quadrant BS

The phrase is gold. I understand from this that companies which provide tools and infrastructure for professional developers must not only attract the devs themselves, but also (and maybe more importantly) market/advertise and sell to the "suits", their managers and employers.

Not sure if that's what you intended, but I'm now seeing the value of glossy Gartner magic quadrant BS, and thinking how to apply it in my own projects.

Re: Docker on MacOS is slow and how to fix it

#155

Post by jeroenhd » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 8:03 AM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #82

vforvendettador wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many Mac is the only sensible option. There's one developer in our company that uses Linux and it's a lot of pain to setup. Mac has the best balance between coding, utility tools and "other work stuff". Windows probably on par if not more for "work stuff" but falls badly in the coding & tooling department. Linux is OK ish for coding and utility but falls behind for "other work stuff" and certainly a pain to just…

> but falls badly in the coding & tooling department. That's more perception than reality, often from people who simply don't know how to use Windows. Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, and IntelliJ IDEA blow any Linux text editor out of the water for developer productivity. For Linux workloads there is the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL 2), which now even supports GUIs with GPU acceleration! Visual Studio Code can…

> Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, and IntelliJ IDEA blow any Linux text editor out of the water for developer productivity.

I used to love Visual Studio but Jetbrains has caught up to it and then surpassed it years ago. I generally run IDEA and VSCode for code editing and going back to Visual Studio is a real shock, especially with the pleasant memories I've had of using it.

VSCode and IDEA run great on Linux, though, perhaps even better because Windows isn't great with tons of tiny files.

WSL2 is great if you prefer the Windows GUI. It fixed almost every issue I've had developing on Windows outside of Microsoft's data hunger and terrible UI design. Whatever Linux centric tool you can think of, it just runs on Windows now.

If I could use the comfortable and stable Windows 7 UI with the Windows 11 kernel, I'd actually consider going back to Windows. In terms of usability, Windows just lacks polish these days. That said, my attempts to try macOS didn't fare much better, I just couldn't get over the primitive window management and the bad integration with my home/end/page up/page down keys.

Re: Docker on MacOS is slow and how to fix it

#156

Post by pjmlp » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 8:17 AM UTC

vforvendettador wrote: post #31

thunky wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My preferred fix: don't develop in Mac.

For many Mac is the only sensible option. There's one developer in our company that uses Linux and it's a lot of pain to setup. Mac has the best balance between coding, utility tools and "other work stuff". Windows probably on par if not more for "work stuff" but falls badly in the coding & tooling department. Linux is OK ish for coding and utility but falls behind for "other work stuff" and certainly a pain to just…

> Windows probably on par if not more for "work stuff" but falls badly in the coding & tooling department.

Given the option, I rather spend my day on VS than XCode, and C#/F#/C++ than Swift/Objective-C, but to each their own I guess.

And then there is the whole thing about where macOS Server end up.

Re: Docker on MacOS is slow and how to fix it

#157

Post by pjmlp » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 8:20 AM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #155

jiggawatts wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but falls badly in the coding & tooling department. That's more perception than reality, often from people who simply don't know how to use Windows. Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, and IntelliJ IDEA blow any Linux text editor out of the water for developer productivity. For Linux workloads there is the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL 2), which now even supports GUIs with GPU acceleration! Visual Studio Code can…

> Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, and IntelliJ IDEA blow any Linux text editor out of the water for developer productivity. I used to love Visual Studio but Jetbrains has caught up to it and then surpassed it years ago. I generally run IDEA and VSCode for code editing and going back to Visual Studio is a real shock, especially with the pleasant memories I've had of using it. VSCode and IDEA run great on Linux, tho…

People that keep repeating that matra really don't do serious Windows development.

GPU debugging, DDK support, ETW debugging, SQL Server integration, GUI designers for Forms, WPF, UWP, MFC, mixed mode debugging across .NET languages and C++, COM/WinRT IDE tooling,IIS integration,...

Re: Docker on MacOS is slow and how to fix it

#158

Post by ehutch79 » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 8:22 AM UTC

xwowsersx wrote: post #64

I have "use virtualization" turned on in Docker Desktop for Mac, but I don't see different options for the file sharing implementation. I'm currently on version 4.14.1 (91661). Separately, with "use virtualization" turned on, should I also enable "VirtioFS accelerated directory sharing"?

It’s under experimental features in 4.14. It’s the default where available in 4.15.

You might need to upgrade both docker desktop and macOS.

Re: Docker on MacOS is slow and how to fix it

#159

Post by pjmlp » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 8:23 AM UTC

survirtual wrote: post #106

jiggawatts wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but falls badly in the coding & tooling department. That's more perception than reality, often from people who simply don't know how to use Windows. Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, and IntelliJ IDEA blow any Linux text editor out of the water for developer productivity. For Linux workloads there is the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL 2), which now even supports GUIs with GPU acceleration! Visual Studio Code can…

This is just really false. As someone that used Windows as my daily driver & migrated to Linux many years ago, the tooling on Linux is vastly superior. Most codebases and extensions also work trivially easy in shell, and command line operations in general are much less a pain point. I’ve since migrated to Mac because I was spending too much time making linux work properly, but I do miss the control I had. I have Wind…

So how you do you single step GPU shaders on your superior tooling?

Re: Docker on MacOS is slow and how to fix it

#160

Post by wkat4242 » Fri, Dec 23, 2022, 8:32 AM UTC

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #148

wkat4242 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also our employers. They don't like to spend money on dev tools because the suits don't see the benefit. There's no glossy Gartner magic quadrant BS for every niche development usecase so they think they're throwing money into the fire.

If you think you get more productive with $10/month or something that most dev tools cost, why don’t you buy it on your own. After all even if it increases your salary hike by 1%, it will be worth it. I have seen designers buying Adobe tools which cost much more than dev tools, and their salary is on average lower.

I don't know where you work but in our place using tools without internal approval or certification is really frowned upon. And in the case of this particular product we were talking about, it's really an infrastructure thing. You can't implement this on your own because then your colleagues' work won't connect to yours anymore.

But also, the company should just supply the tools.