Ron Paul speaks against SOPA • Hacker News Board

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#151

Post by redthrowaway » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:04 PM UTC

ericingram wrote: post #145

maratd wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way. In fact, I'm sure most of Ron Paul's supports feel the same way. I find his foreign policy views deplorable and offensive. You know what? I will still be voting for him. I'm tired. I'm so tired of the lying. Gingrich, Romney, Obama, Bush, etc. will say anything to get elected. Once elected, they all behave the same way. I'd rather have an honest man I disagree with in the White House, than a man…

If you don't agree with Ron Paul, it's because you've spent far less time studying the real implications and economic intricacies as he has. He's right on everything.

I'm hoping that was tongue-in-cheek.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#152

Post by gahahaha » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:04 PM UTC

kissickas wrote: post #28

makmanalp wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be interested in what he had to say until I saw this: http://murphysbride.tumblr.com/post/14876601176/bacon-beer-a... I don't know how credible this is but it leaves me doubtful.

Ron Paul has claimed he didn't write those comments (taken from newsletters a few decades ago) and has renounced them, at least. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul#Inter-congressional_y...

Ron Paul didn't decide he had never written or read his newsletters until 2001

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/12/27/395391/fact-che...

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#153

Post by redthrowaway » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:06 PM UTC

MattBearman wrote: post #88

The actual article is titled "Presidential Candidate Ron Paul Slams SOPA", which I think is a better title, especially for us non-US residents. As while I'm hugely interested in the whole SOPA story, being from the UK, I had no idea who Ron Paul was, let alone that he was a presidential candidate. Now that I know who he is, his stance against SOPA is much more interesting. Just a thought.

I get not knowing who Ron Paul is, being from the UK, but at the same time I would expect you would at least know his name, being from the Internet. He's not exactly a low-profile figure in these tubes of ours.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#154

Post by thebigshane » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:06 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #125

jswinghammer wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis do you say he's against gay rights? He has the most progressive opinion on marriage of any candidate. Which is to say abolish marriage licenses entirely. It's only very recently (in the history of marriage) that marriage became an issue to the state anyway.

If you believe that marriages should be altogether abolished, but before they are abolished you refuse to support efforts to make the discriminatory status quo more equitable... then, yes, you're against gay rights.

I would note that you are on to something: Ron Paul is unlikely to ever "support efforts to make the discriminatory status quo more equitable" but his reasons are likely more constitutionally-based than personal. But, either way, that is not the same thing as "against gay rights". Refusing affirmative action is not the same as promoting the segregation.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#155

Post by wycats » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:06 PM UTC

It's not surprising that Ron Paul would be against SOPA.

That said, libertarians like Paul would have been against funding the projects that led to the Internet, and are today against funding similar government projects that might lead to future innovations.

In many cases, innovations are bootstrapped by government funding or research, and then handed off to an appropriate role by the free market. Libertarians are usually against regulating the private market once the handoff has occurred (for good in many cases, and definitely in this case), but they are usually against the initial government bootstrapping.

It's easy to imagine attacking the initial ARPA work on privacy, anti-military, or anti-elitism grounds, and I could easily imagine it losing its funding today, decried as a boondoggle that was useless for regular Americans, who of course would never have access to a computer, with taxpayers footing the bill.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#156

Post by aamar » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:06 PM UTC

danenania wrote: post #102

damncabbage wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a nice break-down of exactly why the newsletter debacle is so damning (and how it contrasts with how Wright was handled): http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/12/re-thinking-...

The newsletter debacle is 'damning' simply because the US corporate media has decreed it so. The newsletters are definitely offensive, and are reasonable cause for disliking Paul as a candidate and perhaps even a person, but as others have pointed out, they are relatively mild as far as political skeletons in the closet go. If the media favored him, they could be easily downplayed as have been countless much more ser…

You're inappropriately comparing the actions of candidates with people who have actual power. Neither George W. Bush nor John Yoo is running for office. Ron Paul is, and as a non-leadership representative, he's not in a position to affect policy in any significant way. He hasn't had the opportunity do things that Bush did. In order to assess him as a candidate, we have to understand how he acted given his opportunities.

Considering how small those opportunities were, a profitable newsletter publishing articles exhibiting this level of inaccuracy and racial animus is meaningful.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#157

Post by gahahaha » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:07 PM UTC

aik wrote: post #64

j2labs wrote: post #62

The economist has a great write-up of Ron Paul: http://www.economist.com/node/21542199/

Thanks for posting. A question about this statement from the article: >> But [Ron Paul] coming this far tells you something about the mood of Republican voters. Don't you think it's a bit limiting to single out republican voters? I am fairly convinced that there are a significant amount of voters on all sides that support Ron Paul. I have also come to believe that specifically many republicans are against him, largel…

There is a huge amount of ignorance about what Ron Paul really stands for - when he becomes a serious candidate (not very likely) and is given the scrutiny and attention that other candidates are given, then he will implode like Perry and Herman before him.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#158

Post by tvon » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:07 PM UTC

bmelton wrote: post #50

tvon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said that Ron Paul is not against abortion, but that he is opposed to it.

More specifically, Ron Paul doesn't believe that ANY abortion legislation should be passed at the federal level, whether or not it is for or against abortion, and believes that right should be held by the states.

What a cop out.

Ron Paul wants to define life as "starting at conception", he wants to do this at the federal level, and he wants states to ban abortion (which they'd frankly have to do if life was defined as starting at conception).

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#159

Post by JshWright » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:09 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #123

CWuestefeld wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

against abortion This is false. He absolutely opposes anti-abortion (or pro- for that matter) legislation at the federal level. He is personally opposed to abortion, and he'd like to see states forbid it. But since we're talking about him with respect to a national office, his views of what states should do shouldn't matter too much. I think you'll find that in almost every way, he wants to get the federal government…

Right now, it's illegal to ban abortion in any state. Ron Paul wants to make it legal for states to ban abortions, as Ron Paul is personally pro-life. This isn't something that is driven by some deeply-held libertarian principles. Many (most?) libertarians are pro-choice.

He also wants to make it legal for states to legalize marijuana, despite that fact that he (I assume) would personally oppose the use of marijuana.

His personal opinion on the particular issue isn't what's motivating him, it's his opinion that it should be up to the states to decide, not the federal government.

Re: Ron Paul speaks against SOPA

#160

Post by tvon » Fri, Dec 30, 2011, 6:09 PM UTC

RickHull wrote: post #51

tvon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said that Ron Paul is not against abortion, but that he is opposed to it.

He has a personal opinion, but this does not drive the policy he advocates. Likewise, he may not want people to drink alcohol on Sundays, but he would not outlaw such behavior.

His personal opinion certainly does drive the policy he advocates.