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Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

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Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#151

Post by jasonhansel »

zebnyc wrote: post #78

Am no defend-the-blue type of person but all of you claiming that the police turn up with excessive force for swatting need to educate yourself. Please watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IFPRyFW9F4 These swatters want the police to turn up and use deadly force. They use voice & call scramblers to call the police. The swatters tell the dispatchers that they are mentally unstable / psychotic and have already killed…

Honestly, showing up with a SWAT team as a first step suggests a certain lack of courage, particularly if the officers know how prevalent SWATting is.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#152

Post by LanceH »

jachee wrote: post #133
imgabe wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are more or less stating that the problem is overzealous responses from police, rather than police receiving a fake call for which a SWAT team would be an appropriate response. Do police in other countries simply not have the capacity to deal with people in imminent danger? Their response to getting a call claiming that there's a crazy person in the house about to murder the caller is to knock politely and ask q…

I can’t think of a single kind of situation requiring a police response where surprise escalation is a key component that will help solve that situation in favor of controlled investigation and a focus on de-escalation.

> surprise escalation

surprise escalation into an unknown, unverified situation where the only basis for the use of deadly force is whether the police feel there is danger. Of course they are in fear for their lives because they are leaping into the unknown, unprepared.

We hear about the militarization of the police. I hate that term. They are playing soldier, not acting it. Having been in the military, if we had a situation and the time we would monitor a location and find out everything we could. Apparently that wasn't passed along to the police, only the guns were.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#153

Post by jcranmer »

olliej wrote: post #38
nickff wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving attempted murder is very difficult, but "SWATting" already falls under the broad umbrella of 'assault'. It seems like the police are likely guilty of criminal negligence as well.

Genuinely curious: What is the crime if I shoot a gun at a house knowing that it is occupied?it seems obvious that if I kill an occupant it would be murder, but what happens if I don’t?

In my state, one of the laws is

> Whoever discharges a firearm as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, a rifle or shotgun within five hundred feet of a dwelling or other building in use, except with the consent of the owner or legal occupant thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not less than fifty nor more than one hundred dollars or by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than three months, or both.

This is the law that would definitely apply. Interestingly, it appears that there is a bill before the state legislature that would cover specifically shooting at a dwelling (with intent to hit it), which would carry 5 years/$10k fine.

Depending on particular fact patterns, it might fall under attempted murder, reckless endangerment, or other charge in a similar vein. This sort of stuff tends to be extremely jursidiction-dependent.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#154

Post by jjoonathan »

xoa wrote: post #18

> prompted the FBI to issue a public service announcement in late 2020 urging users of smarthome security cameras to use unique passwords From a tech point of view, first in the medium term I first look forward to the long, long, loooonnnng awaited day when this entire class of attacks finally vanishes along with the madness of shared symmetric authentication in favor of proper public key systems. A solid decade and…

> Passkey/Webauthn/FIDO2 ecosystem finally seems to be hitting the tipping point

Where N is the number of services the key unlocks, is there a O(1) migration story yet?

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#155

Post by auveair »

imgabe wrote: post #121
richbell wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you actually think the police send a SWAT team to every single call? I don't think that's what they're implying at all, given the context is about swatting.

They are more or less stating that the problem is overzealous responses from police, rather than police receiving a fake call for which a SWAT team would be an appropriate response. Do police in other countries simply not have the capacity to deal with people in imminent danger? Their response to getting a call claiming that there's a crazy person in the house about to murder the caller is to knock politely and ask q…

> Do police in other countries simply not have the capacity to deal with people in imminent danger?

Speaking from europe, we just don't have that here, at least not enough to have SWAT forces ready immediately.

I can't think of any times that it was a problem the SWAT team was not ready.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#156

Post by jcranmer »

gnicholas wrote: post #97
jahewson wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, 18 U.S. C. § 1113. The special circumstances can be as simple as breaking another Federal law while committing manslaughter. Of course the Feds would much rather stick to prosecuting crimes that don’t overlap state laws.

The section you cite appears to only apply to crimes committed " within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States ", which is defined here [1]. By my reading, it does not include crimes committed inside of US states. It is limited to ships, areas outside of other countries, and various other places. Am I missing something? Also, it doesn't require a 10 year sentence — it refers to " not m…

> The section you cite appears to only apply to crimes committed "within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States", which is defined here [1]. By my reading, it does not include crimes committed inside of US states. It is limited to ships, areas outside of other countries, and various other places. Am I missing something?

It applies to land in states that is owned by the US government, which can include a lot of land thought of as inside states (national parks and military bases are the goto examples here). If you want real fun, try working out which law applies when you're on tribal land.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#157

Post by californical »

phpisthebest wrote: post #148
tommica wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're screwed if you need to print something :(

Like what? Everyone should be paperless these days. What exactly do you still need to print?

Bills need to be mailed to my health insurance company if I want to be reimbursed for anything — no online uploads whatsoever, and this is for one of the major national companies that everyone knows.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#158

Post by Moru »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #130
cortesoft wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I have been a professional software developer for 15 years, and my whole house is smart. The trade offs are worth it to me.

Same here. This joke/meme is cute but it isn't really true, lots of tech people have smart devices.

Some tech enthusiasts just aren't old enough yet to become tech people :-)

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#159

Post by defrost »

SoftTalker wrote: post #144
jachee wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t think of a single kind of situation requiring a police response where surprise escalation is a key component that will help solve that situation in favor of controlled investigation and a focus on de-escalation.

Active shooter probably.

Ironically the standard US response for an active shooter in a school appears to be to wait outside for a good while and see if things work out for themselves.

Re: Amazon Ring cameras used in nationwide ‘swatting’ spree, US Justice Dept. says

#160

Post by AlbertCory »

phpisthebest wrote: post #148
tommica wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you're screwed if you need to print something :(

Like what? Everyone should be paperless these days. What exactly do you still need to print?

Should be, maybe, but isn't.

To give one trivial example: if you're selling vinyl records on Discogs, you need to print the mailing address to put it on the package.

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