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ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

jameswillia.ms

151–160 of 213 posts

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#151
post #18

Kahneman's book has been debunked, it is unfortunate that that hasn't reached mainstream audiences yet.

Kahneman's book is based on a myriad of sources and covers enormous ground. He enumerates dozens of patterns of human thought, all supported by studies. Furthermore, the book is clear that System 1/System 2 distinction is an imperfect model. I'm sure the field of psychology has made progress since Think Fast and Slow was published, but it feels weird to use the word "debunk" to refer to a book that was scientifically…

Was the theory of phrenology scientifically accurate at some point in time?

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#152
post #20
post #18

Kahneman's book has been debunked, it is unfortunate that that hasn't reached mainstream audiences yet.

Do you mean that the chapter on priming has been debunked (as I believe Kahneman acknowledges) or is there more wrong than that?

There is more. https://replicationindex.com/2020/12/30/a-meta-scientific-pe... lists many more chapters, and one of the comments refers to this paper https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1745691620964172 about system1/2 specifically:

> Popular dual-process models of thinking have long conceived intuition and deliberation as two qualitatively different processes. Single-process-model proponents claim that the difference is a matter of degree and not of kind. Psychologists have been debating the dual-process/single-process question for at least 30 years. In the present article, I argue that it is time to leave the debate behind. I present a critical evaluation of the key arguments and critiques and show that—contra both dual- and single-model proponents—there is currently no good evidence that allows one to decide the debate. Moreover, I clarify that even if the debate were to be solved, it would be irrelevant for psychologists because it does not advance the understanding of the processing mechanisms underlying human thinking.

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#153
post #144
post #19

There's a way simpler answer than this Type I Type II thinking stuff. Most LLMs like GPT are not trained on the level of individual characters – they process input and outputs on the level of subword units that compose multiple characters to support long context windows (i.e. "door" instead of "d", "o", "o", "r"). As a result, they do poorly on character manipulation tasks. You can get some insight here: https://beta…

This is not it or not sufficient explanation. chatGPT is able to read text with letters purposefully scrambled. Like those texts that show how humans have an innate ability to read text with letters misplaced. chatGPT can understand the text, figure out what is going on and produce text of the same type. I tried it, precisely to understand if it was working with words as its token. Interestingly, it cannot produce te…

Did you try entering one of those scrambled sentences into the tokenizer? It's not tokenizing words exactly- the doc says roughly ~100 tokens => 75 words.

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#154
I'm working a lot with Google ads and when I tested ChatGPT it was just not able to limit their output to a certain number of characters. It always failed to give at max 90 characters. When I tell it, that it used more, it apologizes, gives another output and makes the same mistake.

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have yet to see ChatGPT make any grammatical mistakes in either English or Japanese. In French, I have seen it make the same conjugation mistakes as native speakers ("elle a terminée") as well as a few gender mistakes on conjugation (not sure which one exactly anymore, but something like "le lutin est tombée") which wouldn't be common for native speakers. But it is very good, I have been using it to translate Dut…

What is your impression of ChatGPT’s responses in French compared to its responses in English? While I haven’t noticed any grammatical mistakes in its Japanese, its Japanese responses seem less lucid and more repetitive than its English. It seems likely that it was trained on more data in English than in other languages, possibly making its English responses better. I don’t know any other languages well enough to jud…

I have found it very good at French, I didn't really notice any difference compared to English. Dutch seems good too but I might not be able to judge.

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#157
post #42
post #19

There's a way simpler answer than this Type I Type II thinking stuff. Most LLMs like GPT are not trained on the level of individual characters – they process input and outputs on the level of subword units that compose multiple characters to support long context windows (i.e. "door" instead of "d", "o", "o", "r"). As a result, they do poorly on character manipulation tasks. You can get some insight here: https://beta…

Hm, could explain why it can't play wordle: > Give me a five letter word, beginning with e, and having third letter be t. Not including I, l, u or h. >> etchy > Does etchy contain h? >> No, etchy does not contain h. > which letters do etchy contain? >> Etchy contains the letters e, t, c, h, and y. > what were the criteria? >> The criteria specified that the word must have five letters, begin with e, and have the thir…

It's interesting that it can actually extract the letters from the word despite the tokenization approach.

I have noticed that it struggles with ordinality and cardinality, which might be part of what's going wrong here.

But the other issue with this type of interaction is that once it makes a mistake (claiming etchy meets the criteria), it has a tendency to double down on it and go crazy inventing the reasoning for why.

That's because it's mistake gets baked into the input window and becomes a very strong influence over the output. In this case, you probably would have gotten completely different answers if you informed it etchy was an incorrect answer before asking why it got the answer.

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#158

It's really not so complicated. This is just an issue with text tokenization, and the fact that the learning model never actually sees the raw input bytes. All modern LLMs use a tokenizer to convert a sequence of bytes into a sequence of tokens. Short, common words like "the" and "why" are represented as single tokens, while longer and less-common words are represented by multiple tokens. For example, the word "fanta…

Very interesting. I was not aware, for example, of the embedding vector lookup. The transformers I have worked with typically used a simple one-hot token representation, but they were domain-specific and not trained on natural language. How are these embeddings trained?

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have yet to see ChatGPT make any grammatical mistakes in either English or Japanese. In French, I have seen it make the same conjugation mistakes as native speakers ("elle a terminée") as well as a few gender mistakes on conjugation (not sure which one exactly anymore, but something like "le lutin est tombée") which wouldn't be common for native speakers. But it is very good, I have been using it to translate Dut…

What is your impression of ChatGPT’s responses in French compared to its responses in English? While I haven’t noticed any grammatical mistakes in its Japanese, its Japanese responses seem less lucid and more repetitive than its English. It seems likely that it was trained on more data in English than in other languages, possibly making its English responses better. I don’t know any other languages well enough to jud…

In French, ChatGPT sounds very natural yet a little formal. I didn't found any mistake but sometime the form of the verb seems unusual but correct.

Re: ChatGPT, Rot13, and Daniel Kahneman

#160
post #72

I find it amusing that, at present, ChatGPT seems to be lousy at mathematical-type reasoning while being very good at natural language use. That is the opposite of what many people, including me, have come to expect of computers. I have worked for many years in translation, lexicography, and language education, and I am flabbergasted at how well ChatGPT handles natural language. It can produce example sentences of po…

> I find it amusing that, at present, ChatGPT seems to be lousy at mathematical-type reasoning while being very good at natural language use.

All this time developers have been freaking out about ChatGPT taking their jobs when it's really politicians that should be nervous!

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