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Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

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Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#151
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends a lot on what kind of crime you're dealing with. This isn't a matter of teaching the executives of Hertz that no, they don't need to commit crimes to survive, and how to access alternative means of survival, and all that. They did this because they were greedy, lazy, and they knew they wouldn't suffer much for it. When you're dealing with white-collar sorts of crimes like this, deterrence is a thing.

Prison is not the right fit. If you want deterrence, make them pay directly towards the victims. Put them on house arrest. Put them on probation. Ban them from holding a managerial or executive role. There are plenty of alternatives that don't involve locking people in cells - and that are probably more effective a deterrent.

House arrest is imprisonment.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#152
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't pass any smell test for filing false police reports hundreds of times to be a series of hundreds of mistakes.

You're saying that Hertz deliberately targetted these people for some reason? No, that's ridiculous. Clearly this was a mistake. No one thinks Hertz was deliberately trying to punish its own customers. They just messed up and rolled out a feature with a buggy fraud detector.

you are too caught up on if Hertz did it deliberately, that is not the test. Reasonableness, / Reasonable person is the test.

1. Would a Reasonable person believe the system would lead to false reports

2. Were there any engineers or people internal to the company raising concerns that were ignored by managers / executives (I believe there likely was and there is more than enough probable cause for police to get a search warrant to find out)

3. After the first reports came in what actions were taken by the company

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't they be compensated directly for the financial damages and then put the perpetrators in prison for all the damages that can't be moneyed-away?

> put the perpetrators in prison for all the damages that can't be moneyed-away? Unless it was done wilfully, this just perpetuates the American fetish for imprisonment. They should be fired. They should be fined. And they should be deeply investigated, to confirm there wasn’t intent.

They clearly understood they were doing harm, which is outlined in the article. If this was an individual who had done this, there would be no question of them going to jail.

Letting people get away with crimes simply because they're part of a corporation is simply stupid.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#154
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends a lot on what kind of crime you're dealing with. This isn't a matter of teaching the executives of Hertz that no, they don't need to commit crimes to survive, and how to access alternative means of survival, and all that. They did this because they were greedy, lazy, and they knew they wouldn't suffer much for it. When you're dealing with white-collar sorts of crimes like this, deterrence is a thing.

Prison is not the right fit. If you want deterrence, make them pay directly towards the victims. Put them on house arrest. Put them on probation. Ban them from holding a managerial or executive role. There are plenty of alternatives that don't involve locking people in cells - and that are probably more effective a deterrent.

> Put them on house arrest. Put them on probation.

So, prison. Maybe a slightly nicer prison, but you're still taking their freedom away.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#155
post #10

From the article: In its release, Hertz says they believe “a meaningful portion of the settlement” will be covered by insurance so ‘no big deal’ to them what they did to customers, at least for investors. Meanwhile their CEO shrugs in an included statement saying they “will not always be perfect.”

i hope the insurance company takes a look in the documents and tells Hertz to go f** themselfs... No way that the insurance company would cover negliance and fraud...

What does that change? The company paying a fine is still the shareholders or (most likely) the customers paying a fine.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, I had Enterprise squarely in my head as the budget option compared to Hertz, who I always had down as the "pricey but better service" option (at least if you exercised the Gold program, etc.) Not sure if I'm strictly a victim of effective marketing, or if they flipped places in the last however many years, or what, but it's interesting to see your post and the replies that imply I've got it backwards.

If you formed that opinion years ago it might have been more true. In the 00s Hertz was indeed a top tier, best in class, rental company. They were sold the private equity then taken public in 2006 and the quality of the company declined dramatically over the 2010s. They changed their model to focus on partnership programs through airlines, hotels, and credit cards while offering low teaser rates for their rentals an…

Sounds like it. I think the last time I used them was 2016ish or maybe even a year or two before, so that explains it.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#157

I travel quite a bit for both business and personal reasons. This means I'm driving a rental car for 100+ days a year. I've tried all the major rental brands and Hertz is a terrible experience even when they're not calling the police on you by mistake. Their systems don't work quite right, there's a bunch of hidden fees, and their customer service is lacking at best. I swear by Enterprise and purchasing the extra ins…

I have the opposite experience, tried a lot of things including Turo and Hertz economy is the best. I can rent without a credit card and with a deposit easily, cars are clean, never a flat tire or break down so far, good sat radio. What else is there?

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have an Enterprise deal with work so we get very good rates, especially when they drop a car off and pick up at my home or office However I was in one a few months ago and got a puncture on a dual carriageway. By the time I pulled over to a safe location the tyre was shredded. No problem, go into the boot to get the spare wheel out and I'll deal with it later. There was no spare wheel. Just some little device whic…

I was shopping for a car/SUV recently and was given the story about tire technology changing and tires being so good they never fail :) wish I could remember the precise words but good discussion since I never bought the car due to supply chain issues and now I will remember to ask the details.

I got a flat in my rental car last week. It ended up costing me about 3-4 hours out of my day to have a mobile tire guy dispatched from 40 miles away. No spare in the vehicle, so I had no choice but to wait.

I found it funny when I looked closer and realized that the tire that failed didn't match the other three. I think that particular wheel was cursed since the car only had 26k miles on it.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#159
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends a lot on what kind of crime you're dealing with. This isn't a matter of teaching the executives of Hertz that no, they don't need to commit crimes to survive, and how to access alternative means of survival, and all that. They did this because they were greedy, lazy, and they knew they wouldn't suffer much for it. When you're dealing with white-collar sorts of crimes like this, deterrence is a thing.

Prison is not the right fit. If you want deterrence, make them pay directly towards the victims. Put them on house arrest. Put them on probation. Ban them from holding a managerial or executive role. There are plenty of alternatives that don't involve locking people in cells - and that are probably more effective a deterrent.

While there are other options as you pointed out, I'm not sure it's realistic to say they're more likely an effective deterrent than prison.

People pay tons of money to avoid prison, even temporarily - see lawyers, bail, etc. Same goes for getting prison sentences reduced, even just in part, to house arrest and probation.

Just what amount of fines, house arrest, and probation is going to be more effective a deterrent than prison?

I think there's a reasonable discussion to be had about where the line is between 'enough' deterrence and excessive punishment, but it's a bit absurd to claim that things people happily accept in lieu of going to prison will be more of a deterrent than prison.

Re: Hertz to pay $168M to customers arrested due to Hertz’s false police reports

#160

I travel quite a bit for both business and personal reasons. This means I'm driving a rental car for 100+ days a year. I've tried all the major rental brands and Hertz is a terrible experience even when they're not calling the police on you by mistake. Their systems don't work quite right, there's a bunch of hidden fees, and their customer service is lacking at best. I swear by Enterprise and purchasing the extra ins…

> and purchasing the extra insurance to cover any damages.

Don't most credit cards provide rental insurance? How is their coverage different (if it is)?

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