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A navigation app that illuminates public land within privately held property

nytimes.com

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Re: A navigation app that illuminates public land within privately held property

#151

Post by cscurmudgeon »

saagarjha wrote: post #107
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice it doesn't matter at all, just BLM (Bureau of Land Management) alone owns 387,500 sq mi of public land. For comparison, Scotland, is 30,090 sq mi in size . This is not counting local, state and national parks and forests. Why fix a problem that doesn't exist? Some of the largest parks are comparable in size to European countries. https://mapfight.xyz/map/yellowstone/ https://mapfight.xyz/map/death.valley/

Having to drive to a place to hike rather than just being able to go across the areas around you is annoying.

There are tons of hiking places that are walkable from most US city centers. Most US cities have large parks.

Unless European cities are smack in the middle of nature, I think they also have same issue.

Re: A navigation app that illuminates public land within privately held property

#152

Post by sb057 »

dathinab wrote: post #132
Scaevolus wrote: post #21

A number of European countries have "freedom to roam". It would be nice if America had an equivalent, but given how lobbying works that seems impossible at this point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

> It would be nice if America had an equivalent A problem is that (at least some parts of) America has pretty absurd "stand your ground" laws (absurd from a EU POV). Even in the EU countries which don't have freedom to roam laws it is most times safe and often rather inconsequential to trespass, as long as (very oversimplified) you don't climb any fences or similar and keep on the path. (I.e. you have only "accidenta…

>A problem is that (at least some parts of) America has pretty absurd "stand your ground" laws (absurd from a EU POV).

You're confusing "stand your ground" (wherein one can defend against an attacker regardless of where they are) and "castle doctrine" (wherein one can defend against an attacker if residing on one's property). It's the latter that's applicable in this case, but only if the person trespassing is also attacking the property owner.

Additionally, there is a very strong historical precedent for both in western (ie European) law, and especially for the latter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semayne%27s_case

Re: A navigation app that illuminates public land within privately held property

#153

Post by CogitoCogito »

Siddarth1977 wrote: post #119
mediascreen wrote: post #16

As someone who has grown up with "Freedom to roam"[0] laws, it seems so weird that you would need to keep track of who owns the land where you are hiking. (To be fair you can't just hunt wherever you want in Sweden either.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam#Sweden

"Freedom to roam" laws are an archaic notion that only sort of work in very specific locations like the Nordic countries. Even with a large staff of park rangers and a budget for trail maintenance, trash bins, toilet facilities and informational signs about "leave no trace" ethics, it's still hard to minimize the damage tourists do in parks. And even within parks, we don't let people freely roam, we ask them to stay…

> "Freedom to roam" laws are an archaic notion that only sort of work in very specific locations like the Nordic countries.

What is special about Nordic countries making it only (sort of) work there? All the issues you mentioned are issues faced in Nordic countries as well.

Re: A navigation app that illuminates public land within privately held property

#154

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #147
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's bad policy to normalize her concerns. For the sake of her child we hope that New Mom stops at one and is single. This feels like a pointlessly bitter analysis, one that has drawn unnecessarily harsh conclusions. At the time, I started weighing her danger assessment but I stopped. New parents tend to suck at risk analysis. I did. Over time I sorted it out. She would too but not that day. > The biggest reason fo…

LEO & news orgs - both of whom are in the exact position to know better They are not going to stop producing more of the "stranger danger" nonsense, no matter how politely they are asked. You have to start with the consumers if things are ever going to improve.

Regarding LEO, I'm inclined to agree. FBI stats are 2 clicks away so LEO's relentless tendency to portray custodial kidnappings as stranger abductions is at best disingenuous.

The press' issue is one of competency tho. Reporters parrot LEO (gov, corp) PR verbatim, without the least bit of verification, because they are inept. Once reporters get their dopamine hit from public freakout, they are fulfilled. Public freakout leads to ad dollars and that satisfies management.

Re: A navigation app that illuminates public land within privately held property

#155

Post by teddyh »

bergenty wrote: post #112
teddyh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The last thing I want is some random camping in my backyard. FUD. Freedom to Roam laws only allow camping a fair distance away from inhabited buildings.

If it’s 70m that’s still very close to my house. Americans have a way of pushing the boundaries of every law, we’re a litigious country we follow the letter of the law not the spirit. This will probably result in a chain of homeless people that stay in your backyard for three days and then move over to the next backyard.

> If it’s 70m that’s still very close

“150 metres in Norway and in all countries far enough that you do not inconvenience anyone and particularly not those in the nearest house.”

— https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Right_to_access_in_the_Nordic...

> This will probably result in a chain of homeless people

Countries with Freedom to Roam laws have homeless people, too. What you describe has not happened.

> stay in your backyard for three days

Again, FUD about “your backyard”. Do you have a 250,000 sq. ft (2.24 hectares, 5.5 acres) back yard? Also, Freedom to Roam laws usually restrict camping to at most two nights, sometimes one night only.

Re: A navigation app that illuminates public land within privately held property

#156

Post by daydream »

barsonme wrote: post #75
CWuestefeld wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd say the owner of the land that land-locks it gets to within reason decide the route that is permitted Suppose that the public land is sandwiched between two private owners. Which of those private owners must grant the access? Worse, suppose that that chunk in the middle wasn't originally public land, but is later purchased by the state. At that point, the previous owners - having done nothing on their own - are…

This already happens with public utilities and whatnot. I own a number of acres with a public walking trail through part of it. I don’t particularly like having random people being able to walk though my property, but honestly it’s such a minor inconvenience. And people use it much less than you’d think, especially in sparsely populated places like Wyoming.

If you own the property how is the public allowed to walk on the trails? Is there an easement or something similar?

Re: A navigation app that illuminates public land within privately held property

#157

Post by bergenty »

teddyh wrote: post #155
bergenty wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s 70m that’s still very close to my house. Americans have a way of pushing the boundaries of every law, we’re a litigious country we follow the letter of the law not the spirit. This will probably result in a chain of homeless people that stay in your backyard for three days and then move over to the next backyard.

> If it’s 70m that’s still very close “150 metres in Norway and in all countries far enough that you do not inconvenience anyone and particularly not those in the nearest house.” — https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Right_to_access_in_the_Nordic... > This will probably result in a chain of homeless people Countries with Freedom to Roam laws have homeless people, too. What you describe has not happened. > stay in your bac…

Yes, I have a 24 acre backyard

Re: A navigation app that illuminates public land within privately held property

#158

Post by daydream »

saagarjha wrote: post #145

Does anyone know if I could go look up ownership of parcels of land in my city? I don’t really need a hiking map, I was just wondering if there was a government database or something where I could look up who owned what.

In the US this tends to be done at the city or county level, as far as I know. In my state each city has their own land parcel database that they make available.

That said, this commenter pointed to https://regrid.com as a company that aggregates all this local data and provides a nationwide parcel map - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33755133.

Regrid looks great and might work for you.

Re: A navigation app that illuminates public land within privately held property

#159

Post by ASalazarMX »

null_object wrote: post #121
srcreigh wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. In Sweden people can roam with some restrictions. In particular they can't go close to someone's house (up to 70m). Also, in Sweden, they wanted to protect the right to walk along a shoreline, so due to the other rule they stopped allowing houses to be built closer than 100m to the shoreline.

> Also, in Sweden, they wanted to protect the right to walk along a shoreline, so due to the other rule they stopped allowing houses to be built closer than 100m to the shoreline Naturally the rich and powerful have been claiming the shoreline along most of the coast around major towns in Sweden - this is especially true pretty much anywhere in the affluent suburbs around Stockholm, where house owners just extend the…

Money tends to bend the laws. Mexico also has freedom to roam the shoreline, but rich people keep trying to reserve their beach fronts, and in many cases they succeed. Ironically, hotels have a harder time doing the same.

Re: A navigation app that illuminates public land within privately held property

#160

Post by gaganyaan »

bergenty wrote: post #112
teddyh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The last thing I want is some random camping in my backyard. FUD. Freedom to Roam laws only allow camping a fair distance away from inhabited buildings.

If it’s 70m that’s still very close to my house. Americans have a way of pushing the boundaries of every law, we’re a litigious country we follow the letter of the law not the spirit. This will probably result in a chain of homeless people that stay in your backyard for three days and then move over to the next backyard.

That's most of a football field away. I could not care less about someone being that close to my house.
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