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Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

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Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#151
post #17
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly… NFT’s blah blah .. blockchain everything .. came off as like a sales pitch and never seemed to resonant as where the web was headed

Web2: you stop paying a cloud provider, your data is gone. Web3: you stop paying a network, your data stays online. Either because it's permanent by default (blockchain, blockweave) or because people deem it interesting and pin it (IPFS) Seems like a fundamental improvement to me.

How does that retention strategy scale?

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#152
post #127

Web3 refers to the emerging shift in internet value chains from permissioned, centralized databases to permissionless, decentralized databases where users own their data. The driving force behind Web3 is that we can now enforce invariants on state transitions in a permissionless, decentralized manner for a limited set of applications (mostly financial). For an even more limited set of applications, we can also enforc…

This is a great summary. Many of the critiques I've read here criticize the early users of the technology, which is like blaming cars when the blame should be on bad drivers.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#154

So many short-sighted critiques. Web3 or whatever might not be the answer, but you have to ask yourself a question: what's the internet going to look like in 2030, when the majority of its traffic is non-western, and a massive share of all purchasing power resides in Africa and Asia? Do you think by 2030, all global governments and their citizens will voluntarily give away control over what they can consume and creat…

The history of technology over hundreds of years is a history of convergence to centralization that can only be disrupted by new technologies that will also converge to centralization. You're probably right that the current incumbents will eventually be replaced (not by 2030 though, that's only in a little more than seven years!), but they will need to be replaced by something that is at least 10x better AND has an extremely low barrier to entry. Decentralized solutions (as we currently understand them) don't offer either of those, and it's unlikely that they ever will.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Paying for things with a crypto wallet is legitimately a far, far better experience than fumbling around with credit cards. ... and when you talk about "experience", what do you mean here? I doubt there's a much slicker payment experience than Apple Pay when a vendor supports that, and I'm also pretty sure that my disputing a transaction with Chase is better than an equivalent crypto experience.

I mean paying for things online. Should have mentioned that. I bought a subscription to a tool called Icy.tools a while back. The sign-up process was as follows: - Click the "Sign-Up" button on the website - Click the "Sign" button on the web wallet pop-up. - Click "Pay" on the next screen - Click "Approve Transaction" on the web wallet pop up. That's it. No forms to fill. No emails to share. No credit card info to f…

Apple Pay online payment flow: on the checkout form, click the Apple Pay button. OS pops up a form confirming the payment card, amount, delivery address etc. Put finger on Touch ID sensor to confirm. n.b. the payment card details and address come from your Apple Pay wallet; you don't enter them onto the checkout form.

Apply Pay Express Transit payment flow for e.g. the subway: touch phone to sensor and go.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#156

So many short-sighted critiques. Web3 or whatever might not be the answer, but you have to ask yourself a question: what's the internet going to look like in 2030, when the majority of its traffic is non-western, and a massive share of all purchasing power resides in Africa and Asia? Do you think by 2030, all global governments and their citizens will voluntarily give away control over what they can consume and creat…

What makes internet commerce any different from any other commerce? I will absolutely make this bet. We already see it.

Countries who don't like to play by the rules of US trade -- those who resist signing trade agreements and using our currency develop or attempt to develop alternatives, and if they lack the capability to do so, they turn to other powers (basically: China). Economic activity gets silo'd into blocs, depending on which large power you want to depend on. Some countries are very cozy to the United States and participate in its trade agreements, joint ventures, currency, etc. Some countries do not.

Internet commerce is not any different at all, and cryptocurrency does not change this one bit. For example, China notably separates its internet traffic from the United States by giving heavy advantages to its own enterprises and internet infrastructure.

No country at all runs their internet economy on some cryptocurrency or cryptocomputation stack. And they never will, no matter how "decentralized" it is. The exception, maybe, is North Korea. Cryptocurrency has allowed them to be sort of digital pirates through ransomware payments. And you can see why they do that (it's not because they're building a productive internet economy on cryptocurrency!) and what the result ends up being (nobody is collaborating on a crypto venture with North Koreans, despite the heavy flow of bitcoin in and out of that country!).

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#157
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, web3 isn't just blockchains. IPFS is a fundamental web3 tech since it's inception, even it's creators from Protocol Labs say so. Just because you like it more than blockchains doesn't mean it's not part of web3. IOTA uses hashgraphs. ArWeave uses blockweaves. IPFS uses DAG.

Sorry, but Web3 can't simply adopt whatever definition is convenient for the present arguement (no 'Metaverse' moment for you). IPFS can adopt whatever identity it wants, but simply wanting to usurp HTTP doesn't make it "Web3 tech since it's inception". It sounds like they're doing a great job driving the project into irrelevance, for whatever that's worth. I don't think your definition of Web3 is generally agreeable…

To me it seems that most critics have the impression that web3 is blockchains, and the moment someone says it isn't, they get mad because they arguments break down.

I was on web3 conferences and met all the creators of these technologies that consider themselves web3 but aren't considered web3 by critics of web3.

What should I make of it?

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#158
post #141

So many short-sighted critiques. Web3 or whatever might not be the answer, but you have to ask yourself a question: what's the internet going to look like in 2030, when the majority of its traffic is non-western, and a massive share of all purchasing power resides in Africa and Asia? Do you think by 2030, all global governments and their citizens will voluntarily give away control over what they can consume and creat…

True. I liked the term web3 somehow, but the more I read how people react to it, it might be already burned.

I don't care much for the term. It's marketing hogwash. The anonymity of the space already attracts a lot of bullshit artists, but everything was ramped up to 11 because of the sheer insanity of the markets in 2020-21 across the board.

I hope that the terminology evolves, just as the space itself evolves as well.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#159
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the standard US centric viewpoint driving this nonsense. Every other developed nation and a lot of lower developed nations solved this long enough ago that it's not even thought about. I have to use my physical card maybe once every 2 months/once per quarter as an anti-fraud step. My phone contactless pays for everything, and anything it can't (like a car or whatever) I can do sub 2 hour but in practice insta…

You do know that international transactions are a thing, right, and that UPI doesn't work globally?

Yes, but the vast majority of people aren't sending money globally.

And the other commentor is right, using credit cards in any non-american country is super simple and completely without hassle. Same with sending money to anyone I know, I just need their email address or phone number. Happens in seconds, is completely safe and ensured and best of all, reversible if there is a mistake.

Re: Web3 – An Arrogant and Treacherous Successor Doomed to Fail

#160
post #127

Web3 refers to the emerging shift in internet value chains from permissioned, centralized databases to permissionless, decentralized databases where users own their data. The driving force behind Web3 is that we can now enforce invariants on state transitions in a permissionless, decentralized manner for a limited set of applications (mostly financial). For an even more limited set of applications, we can also enforc…

Web 3 has been defined as all kinds of nonsense for the last 15 years. The first time I heard this was the semantic web and almost immediately business tried to redefine that term to some conglomeration of social media and advertising. Crypto isn't even decentralized, its distributed, which is the source of the sham.

Web X.whatever is not about content. Its not even about technology. That is why term has failed to stick each and every time. Business people looking to drum up VC need something like this because a simple catch phrase is easier to sell than a concept they have no hope of understanding or explaining.

Do you remember what Web2.0 was? Yes, this was a real concept, and yes it did succeed and proliferate. In short, Web2.0 was use of asynchronous HTTP requests from pages. At that time the technology was just XMLHttpRequest (XHR), but it wasn't about the technology. It was about what you did with it. If you cannot remember back to writing code for the front end web back to 2005-2007 when this first became a thing I don't expect this to make any sense to you because you have no context.

Back then the web was a series of HTML forms and/or static pages. That's it. Content could not change and information could not be submitted without loading a new page. XHR radically changed the experience and how users interfaced with data and how data providers interfaced with users. That change to the business experience was Web2.0. Back then it was a massive improvement, but then you also didn't have the world's largest frameworks to make it so slow and unoriginal.

If people want the Web3.0 moniker to stick to something then apply to something that radically changes how the user perceives the web. Crypto is not and will never be that thing. If VCs lack so much empathy they are bound for losses by shams and cons.

One example of what a Web3.0 could be is a streaming experience where pages load in less than 0.5 seconds (with full state management) and transmit/receive updates in near real time such that you only need a delay spinner for the extreme edge cases.

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