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Ask HN: What is the thing you've built that you regret the most?

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Re: Ask HN: What is the thing you've built that you regret the most?

#151

Post by eCa »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #116
AlotOfReading wrote: post #32

I built a lighting system for to save energy by turning off hallway lights when not in use. The environmental aspect was great and saved hundreds of thousands in electricity. Someone eventually realized that the mesh network I built to connect all the lights together and report usage statistics could also be used to track employees moving throughout the building and catch them taking unauthorized breaks in the stairw…

What is so bad about catching people taking unauthorised breaks?

Would you like to live in a society where the laws are the same as they are now, but it’s impossible to break them and not be caught?

(I know I’m jumping right to where the slippery slope ends.)

Re: Ask HN: What is the thing you've built that you regret the most?

#153

Post by [deleted] »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #116
AlotOfReading wrote: post #32

I built a lighting system for to save energy by turning off hallway lights when not in use. The environmental aspect was great and saved hundreds of thousands in electricity. Someone eventually realized that the mesh network I built to connect all the lights together and report usage statistics could also be used to track employees moving throughout the building and catch them taking unauthorized breaks in the stairw…

What is so bad about catching people taking unauthorised breaks?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: What is the thing you've built that you regret the most?

#154

Post by Negitivefrags »

eCa wrote: post #151
Negitivefrags wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is so bad about catching people taking unauthorised breaks?

Would you like to live in a society where the laws are the same as they are now, but it’s impossible to break them and not be caught? (I know I’m jumping right to where the slippery slope ends.)

If we lived in such a society I would imagine we would be a bit more careful as we drafted laws. It would also be a lot more equitable due to the lack of selective enforcement.

Re: Ask HN: What is the thing you've built that you regret the most?

#155

Post by smoyer »

dehrmann wrote: post #122

A Linux computer for my grandma. The correct tech answer when doing things for regular people is standard tech that lots of people use.

Actually true but for another reason ... When my relatives ask for help on Windows I apologize and tell them I'm a Linux user.

Re: Ask HN: What is the thing you've built that you regret the most?

#156

Post by toss1 »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #116
AlotOfReading wrote: post #32

I built a lighting system for to save energy by turning off hallway lights when not in use. The environmental aspect was great and saved hundreds of thousands in electricity. Someone eventually realized that the mesh network I built to connect all the lights together and report usage statistics could also be used to track employees moving throughout the building and catch them taking unauthorized breaks in the stairw…

What is so bad about catching people taking unauthorised breaks?

The same thing that would be bad about using your phone GPS location sensors to automatically send you speeding tickets every time you wander >1mph over the limit.

Even without intending to, everyone would go from a ticket or two per decade to dozens of tickets on every commute.

"But the law is still the same!?!"

Of course it is, but changing from poorly scalable human-required surveillance to always-on, fully-scaled electronic surveillance, changes it from completely reasonable to massively oppressive.

If everyone's productivity is fine, and people take unauthorized breaks, no one will notice, all is cool. If one or two people are noticeably unproductive, the manager will likely investigate and fix the unauthorized breaks, which is also fine.

But with constant electronic surveillance, it's no longer about meaningful productivity differences, it is about oppression.

Re: Ask HN: What is the thing you've built that you regret the most?

#157

Post by ISO-morphism »

leidenfrost wrote: post #111
TeMPOraL wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had this realization in stages. 1. Almost all software can be abused or co-opted for surveillance purposes. 2. Some software comes already designed for surveillance purposes up front . 2a. This includes plenty of well-known mass appeal software; importantly, the customer-facing marketing copy and the investor pitch can present a completely different value proposition. 3. Software doesn't become used for surveillanc…

Thing is, when the company that pays you actively wants to track everyone, there's little you can do as the person that creates tech form them. If the piece of software you created is unbiased and unopinionated, it can be used for evil purposes. If you make the software deliberatedly against that, you have to (a) take measures without the company knowing (b) have the manpower to do it alone while still reaching devel…

Even in war, we don't universally take "I was following orders" as a valid excuse. People writing surveillance software are not innocent - not as guilty as those that gave the order, but still guilty.

Re: Ask HN: What is the thing you've built that you regret the most?

#158

Post by lasfter »

gnat wrote: post #139
leidenfrost wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is, when the company that pays you actively wants to track everyone, there's little you can do as the person that creates tech form them. If the piece of software you created is unbiased and unopinionated, it can be used for evil purposes. If you make the software deliberatedly against that, you have to (a) take measures without the company knowing (b) have the manpower to do it alone while still reaching devel…

"Thing is, when the company that pays you actively wants to track everyone, there's little you can do as the person that creates tech form them." You can quit. Literally, there is something you can do. If your boss asks you to write or adapt something to surveil, then you can quit. There may be consequences to quitting, perhaps disproportionately felt between you and the company, perhaps consequences that you won't e…

> There may be consequences to quitting, perhaps disproportionately felt between you and the company

This is why unions are so important, even in a field like software engineering. If you quit on your own, the company may not care. But using the threat of strikes, workers can demand better conditions for themselves and more ethical directions for their company.

Re: Ask HN: What is the thing you've built that you regret the most?

#159

Post by kleinsch »

eCa wrote: post #151
Negitivefrags wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is so bad about catching people taking unauthorised breaks?

Would you like to live in a society where the laws are the same as they are now, but it’s impossible to break them and not be caught? (I know I’m jumping right to where the slippery slope ends.)

Taking the other side - you’d rather live in the society we have today where policies/laws are selectively enforced based on whether cops/supervisors have a good relationship with you, are biased re your race/gender, etc?

Re: Ask HN: What is the thing you've built that you regret the most?

#160

Post by zinodaur »

doomslice wrote: post #130
zinodaur wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did the BLE beacons track people? A phone app?

Yes the ticketing app that people were required to use to get into the events.

Nice. Hold on a sec while I uninstall all the random apps I have left over on my phone...
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