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But, aren't you folks web2?

nadh.in

151–160 of 191 posts

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#151
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hang out in spaces for people entering tech, and I see the crypto advocates and grifters creeping in and around these spaces. It's extremely successful. Lately, I'm even seeing crypto grifts specifically aimed at people entering tech from non-traditional backgrounds, weaponising the language and discourse of diversity and empowerment to trick them into not just buying into the grift, but code the grift for them. Fo…

I wouldn't really worry about people with a college degree. At one point or another you remember you classes on distributed systems and you realize the entire space is bullshit. I agree we'll see bootcamp grads and other people from non-traditional backgrounds get burned but it also gives them opportunities that wouldn't exist otherwise, so I'm not sure it's a net negative overall. The much bigger issue lies within p…

I'm not so sure about this. I don't have a college degree, but I don't think the issue with crypto/defi/web3 is a lack of understanding of distributed systems or cryptography. I'd say they're doing alright in the purely technical aspects, although I'm nowhere near an expert.

Rather, I think the fault lies in their understanding of economic and societal concepts: money, debt, what it means to own something. I think that their vision of the future, where every human interaction is mediated by a pseudo-economy, is fundamentally flawed, and that trust is a societal issue which cannot be solved by technology alone.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#152

I definitely get the whole “web3” is useless argument for a lot of the cases it’s been proposed but like any new technology I think it may find valid use cases somewhere down the line. One of the few uses for which I am interested is “web3” identity - being able to keep ownership of my identity/credentials. Using, for example, a wallet to sign a message proving I own an address, I can build apps that don’t require me…

I think the problem with web3 as identity is that there's... no real advantages to this.

Public and private keys have existed before if you want to "own" your identification; you can run gpg or ssh on your computer right now, generate a public and private key pair and all you need to do to now verify that a message is from you is to send that public key to someone else and let them verify a message you signed with the private key.

Assuming your key has enough bits in it when generated, it probably won't be broken until long after you're dead or you'll have (more likely) moved on to a new pub/privkey pair.

You don't need a blockchain for that, it just... works. We don't generally do it that way because it's a fairly cumbersome user experience for people (making the PGP signing experience better is where imo real gains can be made if you want to focus on this area of identity verification, it's absurd that no modern email client for example has made this easier), but for those cases where you really need to 100% confirm that it's you, pub/privkey works just fine as a system.

Heck, you can even generate a pretty nice avatar if you wanted. All that avatar is in the end is a serialization function to display it as an image. Public key blocks are ugly, but when you for example look at SSH, randomart works just fine for validating that the keys match visually and nicknaming SSH keys is as old as time. Randomart maybe is output only a programmer could love, but a visualization of a key isn't new and there's probably some innovation to be had by improving the experience of sharing those keys and actually having randomart resemble actual art.

There's also the fact that... most people don't require that amount of no trust. I can think of a few niche cases where absolute zero trust verification is handy, but when you get to those cases the absolute last thing you want is for their existence to be publicly readable from a blockchain, which will always be the ball and chain on the leg of "web3 technology" (which as the post notes, there's barely any explanation as to what that actually means since it's just a mishmash of technology that seems to be "existing technology but we strapped it to a blockchain for some reason").

So even when it comes to identity verification, it's still mostly just... snake oil really. It's making and pushing around a cart on square wheels while huffing at those with round wheels for "not getting it".

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#153
post #22

For the first time my anger over crypto moves into genuine concern. Is an entire generation of young people experiencing a kind of "pokemonisation" of crypto well into early adulthood? In other words, is a generation of 20-somethings wasting the better part of that decade on this tech, in these scams? If so, this feels new (?). We're not talking about the chain-letter crazes of the 20s/30s, the housewife pyramid sche…

I hang out in spaces for people entering tech, and I see the crypto advocates and grifters creeping in and around these spaces. It's extremely successful. Lately, I'm even seeing crypto grifts specifically aimed at people entering tech from non-traditional backgrounds, weaponising the language and discourse of diversity and empowerment to trick them into not just buying into the grift, but code the grift for them. Fo…

For what it counts, some crypto-grifters held a Bitcoin (ca. 2016, so before other crypto entered any form of public conversation if you weren't "too terminally online") presentation for an outside speaker thing at my uni. Out of general curiosity for the concept and a basic understanding of the technology, I went there.

It... frankly came across more like a cult induction. The speaker was straight up incoherent and seemed to advocate for some weird idea of bitcoin maximalism where in the future everything we did was about Bitcoin and how it's totally the future and babbled on about how we should all work at a crypto company when we graduated. I remember walking away more confused about the technology than when I entered and with a complete disinterest to work for that sort of company in the future, although some fellow students apparently really got into it, which is in retrospect kinda terrifying.

By comparison, the other speakers were much more interesting and useful, having a basic explanation about the design process of mobile development, showing the basics of how XSS works and talking about some of the challenges and technologies used when working with Big Data.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#154
post #10

For the first time my anger over crypto moves into genuine concern. Is an entire generation of young people experiencing a kind of "pokemonisation" of crypto well into early adulthood? In other words, is a generation of 20-somethings wasting the better part of that decade on this tech, in these scams? If so, this feels new (?). We're not talking about the chain-letter crazes of the 20s/30s, the housewife pyramid sche…

When I graduated, mobile was the big thing. That's old now. So, what to do to make a name for you? What big new field is there where you don't have to compete with people that have 10 times the experience than you? Independently of what you think web3 might solve or doesn't solve, it's still just programming. Someone learning cryptography and coding will get a job in other places.

Yea, nobody is using phones anymore... LMAO it's all figured out

Like how in 1995 desktop PC applications were all figured out. The web all figured out.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#155

I think the OP is missing what those kids actually desire when they say web3 - self sovereignty. They grew up in an era where a few big tech companies control most of their experiences, and you're completely locked into them unable to escape even if you hate the platform because that's where all your friends are. Web3 is where you can have one digital login owned by you that you can use for many services and you can…

Self-sovereignty was web 1; you could run your own webserver and e-mail server from a broom closet.

Web 2 was the walled gardens, in part due to facebook et al, but in a big part due to min/maxing and malicious actors; spam e-mail is why you can't run your own mail server anymore, SEO spam and the simple fact the internet is infinitely larger now than in the 90's is why your homepage isn't found anymore.

Web 3 is billionaires and would-be billionaires trying to make (fiat) money from solved problems. It may be decentralized (in theory), but that doesn't make it self-owned & operated. You can't run your own blockchain (it requires participants after all), so you have to join someone else's (walled garden) blockchain. In theory you can convert fiat to crypto and vice-versa without a middle person, but in practice you need an exchange.

In theory, web 3 is the great emancipation from everything, in practice it isn't.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're presumably building a new company so it's about the direction that company is taking, not what already exists. Is the company trying to lock users into their platform? Or are they building open APIs, allowing users to easily export data, integrating with open technologies (ENS, Arweave, Login with Web3 etc)?

Everything you mention is just adding crypto scam to existing tech. We have OAuth, we don't need "Login with Web3." We have DNS, we don't need to introduce Ethereum to it.

I think this is why the whole web3 things seems like a scam to me, proponents are telling people such things didn't exist before FB et al, and that's just BS.

I suspect it's more about monetising every little interaction on the web, every click will cost you a penny, micro transactions taken to the next level.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#157
post #6

I'm in the web3 space for one year now, after working in "web2" for over 10 years. My impression of it is that people that didn't ride the rollercoaster of the dot-com era see it as their chance to get something similar. Everything is a bit more chaotic and you get better payment than in similar "web2" jobs.

What do you see it as?

Are you just in it for the money?

If I am a software developer hating software development who would like more money, do you know how I can learn web3 development with the goal of getting a job?

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#158
post #53

I'm way ahead of you people, I'm already on web4. web4 is a revolutionary technological paradigm that will completely change not only people's use of technology, but entire societies, unlock better forms of governance and agriculture and make human dignity and basic income an immutable right. Join me in creating tomorrow.

I just rewrote web4 in Rust. Come join me instead.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#159
post #83
post #29

I have the opposite experience. I haven't heard tech people talk about any hype new thing in years, but heard many non-tech people get into Crypto to try to get rich or tax evasion. A couple of years ago I was hearing sometimes hype about AI, but now it seems to have cooled down a lot. Or hype about the cloud, microservices, IoT, Kubernetes. All of those seem to have cooled down too and all I see now is skepticism ab…

I wouldn’t say AI hype has cooled down; things like Stable Diffusion, Dall-E, large language models, etc. have captured people’s imagination about AI. If anything, it seems like a lot of the crypto hype has been usurped by AI as the market slumped (and as GPUs became affordable again) I agree that Kubernetes isn’t as hip as it used to be, but that’s mainly because it’s already ubiquitous in enterprise. It lived up to…

You can just check out the gartner hype cycle (scroll down to the image):

https://www.gartner.com/en/articles/what-s-new-in-artificial...

Quite a few technologies will soon pass the trough of disillusionment and A LOT are right before the peak.

Re: But, aren't you folks web2?

#160
post #16

MongoDB is web-scale. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdnDXsqiPYo

Funny, I just compared mongoDB to web3 today:

https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=33621496&goto=item%3Fi...

I remember when mongoDB came into existence and I feared that my skills in the beloved SQL would become obsolete. And at exactly that time I joined a new project that was just migrating from mongoDB to Oracle SQL.

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