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Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

konichivalue.com

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Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#151

Post by ghaff »

mdorazio wrote: post #93
ghaff wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly. But close to an hour commute (or more) is probably the reality most places if you work downtown in a city and don’t live within the city limits. Even within NYC getting to the financial district from Brooklyn or Staten Island is probably hitting close to that. Average commutes in the US are brought down by urbanites who live close to the office and suburbanites who live a modest drive away from an office pa…

The data does not support your statement. For example: https://www.geotab.com/time-to-commute/ Sure, if you cherry pick the worst possible commutes in the worst commuting cities you're going to find pockets of ~1hr commuters, but the broader claim simply isn't true and is perpetuated by people who are themselves trying to justify their overly long commutes. The large majority of people value their time too much to pu…

That data for people commuting into cities seems pretty consistent with what I said. A minority have a less than 30 minute commute. A significant majority aren’t more than an hour. I certainly agree that more than an hour isn’t common though 10-15% isn’t nothing. I did that part-time for about 18 months and it really isn’t sustainable.

Also presumably the number goes up if you exclude people who live within the metro whereas I specifically excluded that group.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#152

Post by goostavos »

F35Machinist wrote: post #130
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though everyone wants to live in Tokyo, the same is true for hit real estate markets in other countries that it is being compared to. We aren’t comparing Tokyo to Duluth. Lack of building codes like must have central heat or must have bathroom also can bring housing prices down.

Do you actually think the comment you replied to was complaining about requirements like central heat or bathrooms? NIMBYs will trot out every excuse and misdirection to avoid addressing the dire shortage of housing. This anti-growth mindset is a philosophy of death. I suspect that deep down, many want the world to end with them and are actually sabotaging efforts to solve societal issues out of some sort of Freudian…

What in the -- Freudian death drive? I'd wager it's far more simple: run of the mill selfishness. NIMBYs want to keep the gravy train flowing while they're here. Increased housing stock threatens the currently astronomical prices and returns. NIMBYs are "anti-growth" because their pocketbook demands it.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#153

Post by jonpurdy »

rippercushions wrote: post #121
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you post examples of this ugliness? I’ve never been to Japan and am curious. I had never heard of this.

Pick a random spot in any suburb of Tokyo in Google Maps Street View and start exploring. Here's one: 亀戸中央通り商店街 https://maps.app.goo.gl/9yY4Ncb5oM3hXqLY6 It's not particularly hideous by Tokyo (or world) standards, it's just exactly what was described earlier, a random mishmash of houses and shops in various states of repair.

You've just linked to a small, walkable street with slow traffic that has multiple food and shopping options mixed with medium density residential. Zooming out it looks like a quick walk to a metro station and multiple parks nearby. Not to mention how safe these areas are.

The random mishmash of houses and shops is exactly the type of place that makes walking viable negating the need for a car (and the expense and waste of space storing one).

I wish I could find neighbourhoods like those found in many Japanese and Korean cities; they're very small and hard to find even in Toronto and SF (and not really comparable anyway).

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#154

Post by GolDDranks »

For a data point: (admittedly, barely) inside Tokyo 23 wards, 15 min walk to nearest station, 70 sqm (753 sqft) 3LDK (3 bedrooms and a living-dining-kitchen). 140000 jpy / month. (945 usd at the current rate.) I think it's a reasonable deal. Less or similar than I would pay for a similar flat in my native Helsinki, Finland.

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#155

Post by [deleted] »

franciscop wrote: post #35

The housing space metrics seem very far off from my experience, looking at numbers it seems "Tokyo" means "Tokyo Metropolis", which includes the countryside, mountains, etc. So it's not really comparing the city. If we look at the numbers for Tokyo 23 wards[1] (what would traditionally be called "the city"), we can see they are virtually half than those from Paris or London: 16.5-19.7sqm/person is the range that fall…

[deleted]

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#156

Post by nikanj »

thiago_fm wrote: post #50

The graph with many countries is ABSOLUTELY WRONG. It says with $1500 rent you can get a 140m2 or 1500 sqft apartment in Berlin. HAHA! MAYBE IN THE 90s. Not to mention that I'm willing to bet that less of 5% of housing in Berlin is 140m2 or higher. (might be 1% or less even)

These often use average rents paid today. They tend to be much lower than average rents if you rent a home today.

One of the main reasons why older people seem to think millennials are complaining about nothing: they locked in their rental rates back in the last millennia, and the laws generally only allow low-single-digit increases per year

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#158

Post by quesera »

newaccount74 wrote: post #57

I think measuring per person is pretty misleading. A single person living in a 25m^2 appartment would be quite cramped. A family with two young kids living in 100m^2 is pretty spacious. So if you look at living space per person, then societies with smaller household sizes will appear to have more living space per person. so if you measure that, you also have to compare how many people are in households as well.

> A single person living in a 25m^2 appartment would be quite cramped. > A family with two young kids living in 100m^2 is pretty spacious.

I would argue very much the opposite!

  - 1 person in 25m² (270 ft²) is comfortable enough in a city, and if your hobbies are small
  - 4 people in 100m² (1076 ft²) can definitely be cramped

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#159

Post by Firmwarrior »

franciscop wrote: post #117
SECProto wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The housing space metrics seem very far off from my experience I have friend living in Tokyo paying Regarding size, I was far more comfortable living in a ~550sqft 1LDK in Japan than I ever was in 800sqft-1000sqft apartments in North America - everything is geared to living in tighter quarters (from furniture to fridge to food packaging) making it much more convenient than trying to fit a full size couch into a sma…

I never mentioned anything about prices though :) 550sqft (52sqm) for a single person is unheard of here. Look at the article I shared, unfortunately it cuts off at 30sqm, meaning ALL the houses of 30sqm or more make up 22% of the total. Assuming a normal distribution that peaks around 20sqm/person, you should've lived in the top 1-2% of Tokyo. I feel like Paris' 20 Arrondissements is too small, comparable to Zone 1…

People living in Tokyo don't check AirBNB to find apartments to rent

Unfortunately, the sites they DO use are entirely in Japanese, so you're not going to be able to get usfeful infographic data in a few minutes

Re: Housing in Tokyo is cheaper and more spacious than people think

#160

Post by Firmwarrior »

franciscop wrote: post #127
Konichivalue wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the numbers are a bit skewed by the fact that more people live alone in Tokyo than Paris or NYC, but it's definitely true that you get more square meters per $ in Tokyo. Also, it is true that people on Tokyo on average earn less than NYC, London and Paris, but they also spend a smaller percentage of their total income on housing, so housing is cheaper in PPP terms too. I'll dig out the exact numbers tomorrow if…

Do you know numbers about how much housing is sponsored by the companies in Japan? Maybe that's what is making the difference since it's not counted neither as salary, nor as the price of the house? I know some large companies sponsor partially or totally the housing of thousands of their employees, again skewing prices greatly. For example if Tanaka's salary is $500 lower because the company is partially paying for…

In Tokyo, you can work as a part time janitor and make enough to live in a 500 square foot place within a 30 minute commute by train
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