Live data from Hacker News

Classic 50mm “Normal” Lens

garyvoth.com

151–160 of 167 posts

Re: Classic 50mm “Normal” Lens

#151
post #87

If pointing someone to a single "normal" lens as a prime, I'd point them to a 40mm, not a 50. When I work with a 50 (which I very much enjoy; used one yesterday), I find that it is tighter in composition than my normal field of view. The 40 much-better matches my own perception and experience. The 50 is a more-careful tool. 35 is a little wide for me (but perfect for human/photojournalism work). If you want to try ou…

Very good advice. I'm usng a Panasonic 20 mm as my go to lens and the Leica 15 mm on micro four thirds. That's exactly a 40 mm and 30 mm equivalent. With the Mamiya 7 I also found myself using the 80 mm extensively, which gives you about the same field of view on 6x7 as a 40 mm lens on 35 mm film of full frame equivalent digital.

50 mm is good for portraits. If you're doing a lot of portraiture, use a 50 mm as your go to normal lens.

Re: Classic 50mm “Normal” Lens

#152
50mm f/1.4 is the first lens I buy with a new camera system.

To get good photos of human subjects you need to use a fast enough shutter speed 1/125 or 1/160. Here a fast lens comes handy in dim light. If you direct the subject and he is posing, then you can get away with 1/15 if you have steady hands, optical stabilization and you are willing to take more shots.

It's important to have a camera with a fast and accurate focusing system and a fast focusing lens.

If the light is scarce, you can use strobes and light modifiers such as soft boxes.

Image quality is a function of exposure which is a function of shutter speed, aperture and scene illumination. The more photons are hitting the sensor, the better.

Re: Classic 50mm “Normal” Lens

#153
post #87

If pointing someone to a single "normal" lens as a prime, I'd point them to a 40mm, not a 50. When I work with a 50 (which I very much enjoy; used one yesterday), I find that it is tighter in composition than my normal field of view. The 40 much-better matches my own perception and experience. The 50 is a more-careful tool. 35 is a little wide for me (but perfect for human/photojournalism work). If you want to try ou…

> If pointing someone to a single "normal" lens as a prime, I'd point them to a 40mm, not a 50. The article does have a section on exactly the issue (FOV) you note - it identifies that the 50mm lens is not the same with modern cameras (which have smaller sensors than 35mm film cameras), and recommends a 35mm lens for these cameras. Personally, I have a 35mm prime lens and quite like it, and I think it did help me imp…

Even when you're using an APS-C (1.5x) or m43 (2.0) cameras, 50mm equivalents do not meet the FoV of most humans, and parent is right. 40mm is a better alternative for street/casual photography.

I personally use a duo of 28mm & 50mm. 28mm is great for street photography in city centers, and 50mm is great for slightly zooming in. I'm saving for a 40mm next. After that I'll ponder on a 20mm for landscape and ultra-wide things.

After getting used to sharpness of a good prime, there's no going back to a zoom.

Re: Classic 50mm “Normal” Lens

#154
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Focal length doesn't do anything to perspective. Perspective is dependent on the location (distance) relative to subject. Different focal lengths will make you want to change your position, to get the entire subject in frame, or, conversely, to get more details. Then you will change your perspective.

> Focal length doesn't do anything to perspective. Perspective is dependent on the location (distance) relative to subject. That's a pedantic way to put it, in the sense that someone says "it's not the fall that hurts you, it's hitting the ground". Sure, but not very usefull. It's the same if you add the extra parameter of "changing the position" into the matter of focal lens vs perspective. Another way to see it is…

> if you stand in the same place and point to the same thing, a larger focal length

What will happen then?

> will do compress the perspective more.

Beep! Wrong! That's why I'm pedantic about the topic. Try it yourself with a zoom lens. The right answer is:

"will capture a smaller angle of the same scene."

No perspective change. Ignoring details coming from resolution, you might as well crop the picture.

Re: Classic 50mm “Normal” Lens

#155
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two issues here. One is just the usual crop factor stuff. Photographers seem to have real problems dealing with this (probably thanks to the original sin of some marketer somewhere), but they have always and will always suffer from that. If you quote focal lengths in "mmeq" (35mm film frame equivalent focal length) then this problem goes into the background and stays there, out of focus, until the next thre…

If Fuji ever makes an X100 with a 50mm-equivalent lens (probably a 35mm f/2), they'll sell a boatload. Quite a few of them will sit on a shelf, though, compared with the 35mm-equivalent X100s of today. You can always crop in, but you can't crop out. If Fuji did make a 50mm X100, though, I'd be on the list. Ricoh made a great choice by bringing the GR IIIx to market. If I ever jump on the GR train, it'll likely be wit…

FUJIFILM TCL-X100 II Tele Conversion Lens - they dont sell a boat load of them.

My old X100 field-of-view is spectacular just the way the designer intended it to be.

https://shuttermuse.com/fuji-x100-conversion-lens-review-28m...

Re: Classic 50mm “Normal” Lens

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it identifies that the 50mm lens is not the same with modern cameras (which have smaller sensors than 35mm film cameras), and recommends a 35mm lens for these cameras That's a different thing, which is about the "crop factor". Modern APS-C digital cameras have smaller sesnors, with a 1.5 crop factor and will need a 35mm lens to get 50mm angle of view. This is not needed for modern full-frame digital cameras, which…

I think the difference between your comment and mine is I assumed the parent commenter is complaining about 50mm FOV being too tight on a APS-C sensor, and you've assumed they're complaining that 50mm is too tight on a full frame sensor. Either could be right. But I think we've all gotten a little lost in the weeds, as the original article was recommending it not specifically because of focal length, but also because…

My comment was based on full-frame equivalence :).

50mm on an APS-C is short-telephoto; frequently pleasing for portraits, but less-useful as a single prime. (I still recommend 50mm f/1.8s as a second or third lens for people using APS-C, but not as an only-lens.)

Re: Classic 50mm “Normal” Lens

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're personally excited about wide-angle lenses and you seem to be convinced that everyone else will feel the same way about them, for candids of friends and family, and I just don't think that's true. You say that longer lenses create "emotional distance" but this is, to be honest, one of the most horeshit photography opinions I've heard. The lens doesn't create emotional anything, it just changes what you get in…

Well, more than anything I wanted to present an alternative viewpoint. The author presented his as if it's the only way. I arrived at my understanding after years of learning about photography and experience of doing it not professionally, taking tends of thousands of photos of all sorts of subjects. I think the point about emotional distance is under-appreciated. Of course, this author (and I don't know why) clearly…

> I think the point about emotional distance is under-appreciated.

I think you’re presenting your personal aesthetic preferences as more universal than they really are. The wide angle lens gets you physically closer to a subject, not emotionally closer. It can be close and intimate, or your subjects can feel like you’re invading their personal space, or the pictures can end up looking a bit gonzo (think Vice Magazine). It’s not an automatic win, it’s just an artistic choice.

I just think here that “get closer to your subject to create an emotionally close picture” is a bit reductive, and typical of the kind of advice you’d see on hobbyist forums that fails to really explore what “emotional closeness” means in photographic terms.

> […] you can see it by frequent use of monochrome/sepia coloring that mimics the nostalgic look of old photos […]

I think the article is actually from 2002 and it’s just been updated. The author may have just shot those pictures on B&W film in the first place.

> When you are enjoying family time, especially with children, it's more important to 1) get something in frame in any way possible fast while 2) still being in the moment yourself than with other types of photography.

That’s important to you. I think Sontag would probably have something to say about the experience of trying to simultaneously (1) be present in the moment and (2) stay vigilant so you can capture the good moments on film. You are trying to participate in your family activities and produce photographic evidence of moments of connectedness that your family experiences. That desire, and your personal style, lead you to prefer wide angle lenses.

The catch is—not everyone takes pictures that way!

I got a new camera with a 50mm f/1.4 long ago, and promptly tested it by shooting two or three rolls of film with my family over a couple hours. If you shoot enough pictures, people may start to ignore the camera, which is what happened. I got the pictures I wanted—which are records of my family looks at home, when they are not posing themselves for a picture.

> If you haven't tried wide-all-the-time, try.

I’ve definitely tried it. The normal lens for one of my cameras got damaged, so I used mostly a wide lens with it for a couple years.

I’ve tried a lot of different equipment combinations, sometimes using rentals or used equipment. Some of my favorite pictures are ones I took of family members with a simple 35mm prime. Some are candids that I took with a 110mm prime and a tripod…

> As to focus, you don't even need to focus many ~25mm lenses if you shoot with moderately closed aperture […]

I have a prosumer DSLR from several years ago. It takes about 150ms to focus and take a picture, from when you press the button. This is fast enough, for sure. If you understand how AF works, and have a camera with a good AF implementation and enough AF sensors, it’s very fast.

> I thought 40-50mm would be a nice middle ground, but it doesn't give the really pronounced separation, bokeh and aesthetics of longer lenses like 75mm […]

It depends on your budget and which system you are using.

With a high budget, you can go for the “big glass” look, but with a more modest budget, the humble 50mm f/1.8 is available for under $200 and gives excellent bokeh / background separation. The difference is not so big—the 50mm f/1.8 has a 28mm aperture, and a high-end 85mm f/1.4 has a 60mm aperture. That’s about a factor of 2x difference in bokeh, but a 10x difference in price.

It sounds like this is just not your style, but it’s not like any one lens would work for everyone—just like getting a 28mm or 35mm equivalent wouldn’t solve everyone’s problems.

Re: Classic 50mm “Normal” Lens

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot recommend a 35mm for close-up pictures of people. The perspective is too weird. I have a 35mm lens, I used it a lot, and it has its uses--and the main way I use it is to capture more of the room or more people when I'm taking pictures indoors. Going too close with it results in distorted pictures which is fine as an artistic choice but it's not the choice most people want to make. The Ricoh GR III has a 28mm…

>Going too close with it results in distorted pictures which is fine as an artistic choice but it's not the choice most people want to make. Most people are used to seeing smartphone photos now, which (until recently) only had a wider FOV. I think stylistically, candid/general portrait photography is changing, and I think environmental portraits are much more in vogue than tighter framing with longer focal lengths. 2…

I think people are making this choice because they just want to get the picture, not because they want the picture to look this way. People have always struggled to get selfies to look good, partly because it is hard to make people look good with the camera so close.

Re: Classic 50mm “Normal” Lens

#159
post #98

A few caveats to this. One, the recommended 50mm focal length lens here is specific to full-frame cameras with 35mm sensors. If you have an APS-C camera, which is quite common, then you want a ~32mm lens, and if you use M4/3 like I do, then you want a 25mm lens, to achieve this same effect. Of course it's a lot simpler to abstract away the camera sensor size and simply look at field of view, which for a 50mm full-fra…

> To really match the experience of being there, you need an ultrawide lens to capture the full human field of view. The 40 degree field of view of a nifty fifty is like looking through a narrow doggy cone of shame. This entirely depends on the size and perspective from which your photos are viewed. If you're taking photos that will be printed in 8 foot posters to be hung on a wall and viewed standing right in front…

Most of my photo viewing is done on a 34" desktop monitor from a couple feet away, so yeah, I'm not actually experiencing the doggy cone of shame effect.

My widest lens is 12mm (M4/3), and I find it's often insufficient for capturing the entire view that I would like (in street/building-scape situations), so I'll switch to the 0.6X ultrawide lens on my Pixel 5, which has a 107° field of view. At that point you can capture the entirety of, say, a building, just from the opposite corner of the intersection.

Re: Classic 50mm “Normal” Lens

#160
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference between your comment and mine is I assumed the parent commenter is complaining about 50mm FOV being too tight on a APS-C sensor, and you've assumed they're complaining that 50mm is too tight on a full frame sensor. Either could be right. But I think we've all gotten a little lost in the weeds, as the original article was recommending it not specifically because of focal length, but also because…

My comment was based on full-frame equivalence :). 50mm on an APS-C is short-telephoto; frequently pleasing for portraits, but less-useful as a single prime. (I still recommend 50mm f/1.8s as a second or third lens for people using APS-C, but not as an only-lens.)

Thank you for the clarification! I've been happy with my 35mm lens (50mm equivalent) largely because it cost about $200.
Post reply on HN