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NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

iapps.courts.state.ny.us

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Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#151

Post by throwawaylinux »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #134
neither_color wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like this and allowing certain events while vilifying others as "superspreader events" killed a lot of people's belief in mitigation strategies IMO. A virus is a virus and doesn't recognize human needs or wants. Either there are no exceptions for anyone or we shouldn't bother.

The same happened in CA with some stores being open and others closed. Why was Home Depot open? It made no sense in terms of spreading the disease . It was just arbitrary BS. Closing the beaches was stupid too. If there ever was a safe place then it was the beach or state park wheee uou are in the open and the window blows.

People were rabidly cheering it on too. Police going around shutting playgrounds and arresting parents for playing outdoors with their children, while at the same time the politicians they voted for were constantly and egregiously shown to be flouting the rules on frivolities, parties, travel, fun. And there were excuses for the politicians and bloodlust for the commoner trying to exercise or raise their child. Absolutely flabbergasting.

I used to wonder how on earth nazis and communists and the like were able to seize power and control of a population, and now I've seen it. Covid has been a really amazing learning experience for me.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#152

Post by colinmhayes »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #132
colinmhayes wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because athletes and performers are irreplaceable and bring in tourist revenue which the city wants. Firefighters are more easily replaceable and have no effect on tourism. Having competing priorities is common enough, I don't see what doesn't make sense here. The city wants everyone to be vaccinated but it also wants broadway and basketball to be happening more, so they came up with this policy.

Why do firefighters have no effect on tourism? Without them you can not run a city. Same for many other jobs like garbage collection.

Because they can be replaced by vaccinated people I guess and if one or two can’t that’s ok because they’ve still got all the other ones. Kyrie and the Yankees can’t be replaced.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#153

Post by nwiswell »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #120
nwiswell wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is bizarre. Most states call them "superior" courts. Supreme implies, well, the superlative authority, and it is definitely not.

Apparently Maryland also names it's courts confusingly, which I only know because on the ballot in a couple weeks is a constitutional amendment to change it to be what you expect. (and googling it just now to give you details, I arrived at Ballotpedia which said Maryland and New York are the only two states that don't call their top court "supreme". Maryland for not much longer probably, as ammendments on the ballot…

I can think of another context where "special" is a pejorative... :)

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#154

Post by colinmhayes »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #145
colinmhayes wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because athletes and performers are irreplaceable and bring in tourist revenue which the city wants. Firefighters are more easily replaceable and have no effect on tourism. Having competing priorities is common enough, I don't see what doesn't make sense here. The city wants everyone to be vaccinated but it also wants broadway and basketball to be happening more, so they came up with this policy.

Aren't NYC's financials a basket case though? Surely its politicians don't care much about bringing revenue to the city, rather bringing profit to their friends and families and lobbyists. That is what makes more sense here.

My understanding is that a significant number of Yankees were unvaccinated and would not have been able to play home games. There are a significant number of New Yorkers that would’ve been very upset had that come to pass, so politicians acted according to public will and gave them an exception. Does that mean this wasn’t also corruption? No, but it is a reasonable thing to do even without corruption imo.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#155

Post by ClumsyPilot »

phpisthebest wrote: post #60
lkrubner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christopher H. Achen & Larry M. Bartels wrote a whole book showing that voters do not keep track of what elected officials do, and so politicians are not punished for bad behavior, see excerpt here: https://demodexio.substack.com/p/longer-elected-terms-lead-t...

This is also shown in polling data, where congress on the whole has an approval rating of less than 10%, yet most years the incumbent is reelected That statistic alone has me questioning if democracy is a good system

We need an option 'against all' and if that option wins, all candidates are disqualified for life.

Then approval rating would mean something.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#156

Post by xfitm3 »

Maursault wrote: post #140
tb_technical wrote: post #73

They took people's livelyhoods away, and now they gotta pay.

They were fired for cause, namely, insubordination. The resistance to vaccination is entirely political. The mandate was not, but instead in the interests of public safety and health. Easing the mandate for special cases was a terrible decision. The decision to ease the mandate should be reversed, not the mandate itself. So quickly they've forgotten the piles of bodies of COVID victims in NYC.

A growing number of doctors have threatened to withhold treatment from the unvaccinated, sparking backlash from doctors and bioethicists who say such sentiments violate the Hippocratic Oath. Those critics are even more troubled by the silence from professional organizations tasked with upholding medical ethics.

The mandate should have never existed.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#157

Post by hotpotamus »

sky_rw wrote: post #139
spaetzleesser wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do firefighters have no effect on tourism? Without them you can not run a city. Same for many other jobs like garbage collection.

Well clearly there is an elite class to whom body autonomy is granted, and an underclass who must follow arbitrary and capricious rules. OP appreciates that celebrities and entertainers are our betters and should not be held to the same standard.

I don't think this mandate had much to do with body autonomy, but job autonomy, which yes, rich people have quite a bit more of.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#158

Post by ClumsyPilot »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #46
jakogut wrote: post #10

Something I've been wondering in recent cases where courts are overturning recent government action, whether unconstitutional bills passed into law, or unconstitutional executive actions that overstep authority, is where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place? The state of New York famously responded to the outcome of NYSRPA v. Bruen, which overturned the defacto ban on concealed carry, by decl…

> How do courts declare certain executive orders unconstitutional, and yet the perpetrators, who took an oath to uphold and defend said rights and values, face no consequences? Isn't this like saying developers should suffer consequences if they allow bugs to get into their code? Because we are perpetrators of flawed code, like law makers are perpetrators of flawed laws? > Regardless of one's opinion of said rights,…

> Isn't this like saying developers should suffer consequences if they allow bugs to get into their code?

If your code kills someone in a foreceeable and predictable manner, then you should.

Other branches of engineering have to do their work properly

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#159

Post by ClumsyPilot »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #99
muaytimbo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t developers face consequences over bugs in their code? Too many and you might get shown the door.

> Don’t developers face consequences over bugs in their code? If face significant consequences, there would be no developers left. > Too many and you might get shown the door. You are much more likely to get shown the door for being hard to work with, being crass, not showing up to work, not following process (that doesn't eliminate bugs but mitigates consequences), etc...

> If face significant consequences, there would be no developers left.

Complete ass pull, many proffesions face consequences

> You are much more likely to get shown the door for being hard to work with

Because the entire industry is full of chancers, startibg with folks who hold the purse strings.

Responsibility for safety only ever came through government regulation. Before that, construction industry made fire escape ladders out of wood.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#160

Post by colinmhayes »

sky_rw wrote: post #139
spaetzleesser wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do firefighters have no effect on tourism? Without them you can not run a city. Same for many other jobs like garbage collection.

Well clearly there is an elite class to whom body autonomy is granted, and an underclass who must follow arbitrary and capricious rules. OP appreciates that celebrities and entertainers are our betters and should not be held to the same standard.

Reality is that not letting Kyrie play basketball cost New York millions, and firing a firefighter doesn’t. Tons of people lose their jobs when entertainment acts close because the performers aren’t vaccinated. Money talks, does that mean celebrities should not be held to the same standard? Not really, it just means that holding them to the same standard would cost more than adams was willing to pay, whether it was the right thing to do or not.
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