> “There’s a high probability in my mind that the market, at best, is going to be kind of flat for 10 years, sort of like this ’66 to ’82 time period,” he said in an interview with Alex Karp, CEO of software and A.I. firm Palantir. Adjusting for inflation, the stock market was not "flat" during this period [0]. The DJIA, for example, closed at an effective price of 9,160.41 in January 1966 and closed at an effective…
Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade
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Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
The rationalizations before they happened are always very intelligent sounding, even in retrospect. If you have 100 intelligent sounding speculators lay out their reasoning and one hits the jackpot, it doesn't mean much. The general problem is each has a mental (or computer) model of the world that is a vast simplification of the world. When they get it right it sounds like they understood and accounted for all the v…
You are not looking if they "sounded" intelligent. You are looking if they were true.
Being right means little when there are 100s of folks with predictions and reasons.
Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah some clowns named Ray and Warren also keeps crying wolf about how the economy has issues too. These guys have no idea what they are talking about! I don't think they even trade.
Buffett has also been predicting the mother of all crashes since 2016. Lesson: never listen to experts unless you discover one with a time machine. Like they say, more wealth has been lost trying to time the market than in crashes.
Good thing I've got the bright denizens of HN to set me straight.
Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
I read a lot of these type of predictions, often you see some people say it's a great time to buy, and others it's a bad time to buy, and generally you will only remember the people who guessed correctly, so none of this helps you today at all. Every time those people who got lucky will appear in some future ad or article making a new prediction, and generally fewer will be lucky twice. In the long run, everyone is l…
Your comment makes me realize that in the medium term, after most of the unlucky predictors drop off, you are statistically likely to be left with a few really lucky ones (i.e. if a thousand people are tossing coins, you're likely to get one guy with a streak of 10 heads), and these individuals are perfect to put on pedestals as rare and brilliant talents.
> Before we begin this examination, I would like you to imagine a national coin-flipping contest. Let’s assume we get 225 million Americans up tomorrow morning and we ask them all to wager a dollar. They go out in the morning at sunrise, and they all call the flip of a coin. If they call correctly, they win a dollar from those who called wrong. Each day the losers drop out, and on the subsequent day the stakes build as all previous winnings are put on the line. After ten flips on ten mornings, there will be approximately 220,000 people in the United States who have correctly called ten flips in a row. They each will have won a little over $1,000. Now this group will probably start getting a little puffed up about this, human nature being what it is. They may try to be modest, but at cocktail parties they will occasionally admit to attractive members of the opposite sex what their technique is, and what marvelous insights they bring to the field of flipping. Assuming that the winners are getting the appropriate rewards from the losers, in another ten days we will have 215 people who have successfully called their coin flips 20 times in a row and who, by this exercise, each have turned one dollar into a little over $1 million. $225 million would have been lost, $225 million would have been won. By then, this group will really lose their heads. They will probably write books on “How I turned a Dollar into a Million in Twenty Days Working Thirty Seconds a Morning.” Worse yet, they’ll probably start jetting around the country attending seminars on efficient coin-flipping and tackling skeptical professors with, “If it can’t be done, why are there 215 of us?” By then some business school professor will probably be rude enough to bring up the fact that if 225 million orangutans had engaged in a similar exercise, the results would be much the same — 215 egotistical orangutans with 20 straight winning flips. I would argue, however, that there are some important differences in the examples I am going to present. For one thing, if (a) you had taken 225 million orangutans distributed roughly as the U.S. population is; if (b) 215 winners were left after 20 days; and if (c) you found that 40 came from a particular zoo in Omaha, you would be pretty sure you were on to something. So you would probably go out and ask the zookeeper about what he’s feeding them, whether they had special exercises, what books they read, and who knows what else. That is, if you found any really extraordinary concentrations of success, you might want to see if you could identify concentrations of unusual characteristics that might be causal factors. Scientific inquiry naturally follows such a pattern. If you were trying to analyze possible causes of a rare type of cancer — with, say, 1,500 cases a year in the United States — and you found that 400 of them occurred in some little mining town in Montana, you would get very interested in the water there, or the occupation of those afflicted, or other variables. You know it’s not random chance that 400 come from a small area. You would not necessarily know the causal factors, but you would know where to search. I submit to you that there are ways of defining an origin other than geography. In addition to geographical origins, there can be what I call an intellectual origin. I think you will find that a disproportionate number of successful coin-flippers in the investment world came from a very small intellectual village that could be called Graham-and-Doddsville. A concentration of winners that simply cannot be explained by chance can be traced to this particular intellectual village.
https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/articles/columbia-business/sup...
Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade
#155I have a very different position on this. I think we will see the most growth we’ve ever seen in the next decade and it will be powered by AI. I think most of these investors don’t really understand how close we are to have very useful AI and what it’s impact will be. We are roughly on the verge of another industrial revolution
Building another AI-marketed SaaS only benefits people who don't need those benefits. In all likelihood, it'll just give us more bullshit jobs.
Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade
#156And Michael Burry has been predicting crashes every few years since the 2008 one. And Bill Ackman predicted 'hell is coming' at the onset of the pandemic and made $2B [0]. And there were US Senators that also did possibly illegal things to pull money out of the market before the public knew about the pandemic. Outside of disclosures filed with the SEC, stock trading is anonymous yet they will have all sorts of headli…
Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade
#157And Michael Burry has been predicting crashes every few years since the 2008 one. And Bill Ackman predicted 'hell is coming' at the onset of the pandemic and made $2B [0]. And there were US Senators that also did possibly illegal things to pull money out of the market before the public knew about the pandemic. Outside of disclosures filed with the SEC, stock trading is anonymous yet they will have all sorts of headli…
There is a reason why they hedge funds underperform the market. Not by a little, by quite bit. They try too hard to predict the market, when in the long run if they just stayed long they would have done better.
Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade
#158I have a very different position on this. I think we will see the most growth we’ve ever seen in the next decade and it will be powered by AI. I think most of these investors don’t really understand how close we are to have very useful AI and what it’s impact will be. We are roughly on the verge of another industrial revolution
Tell me more. I'm willing to be persuaded by this position but I'm skeptical.
What specific AI breakthroughs do you think will happen on what timelines?
Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
So one of the worst long-term periods in history - the S&P was still ~50% better than cash. What else is a passive investor gonna do?
Sometimes you can't beat inflation. Wealth equality is inherently inflationary. If people in developing nations start demanding the same standard of living, prices are screwed, costs go up, and certain cost changes cannot be hedged. For example, how exactly would you plan on protecting yourself against wage increases? It's not like there's a futures market for wages.
What seems relatively unlikely is that you will find people willing to offer physical settlement futures!
The market would probably also be somewhat shallow, being more speculators than anything else. Basically only groups acting more like insurance companies would be willing to add much to the depth of the market, and obviously they would sell such futures at such a steep premium that is unlikely to be a very useful hedge.
Re: Stanley Druckenmiller warns the stock market will be ‘flat’ for an entire decade
#160Look, at a fundamental level, the stock market is a tool for letting people put money into risky ventures without them actually experiencing consequences for that risk.
Given the extent to which the nature of information has changed, I'm comfortable no longer letting this be a driver of economic growth. You want to put money in a thing in the hopes of getting more money, fine. But do your homework -- if they screw up, yes, YOU have to pay.