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They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

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Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#151

Post by dvdkon »

pbasista wrote: post #140
zionic wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I prefer “protocols over platforms”. This entire thing isn’t twitters fault any more than it is WiFi’s, DNS, or TCP’s.

> This entire thing isn’t twitters fault any more than it is WiFi’s, DNS, or TCP’s. I respectfully disagree. TCP or DNS or WiFi or other technologies are merely means to achieve some result. A tool. Twitter, like most services, is also built using various technologies and tools. But its main distinguishing property is that it has a large number of users who, for various reasons, are interested in what some other user…

What would happen if Twitter was a peer-to-peer FLOSS network? In our current world Twitter is a centralised product backed by a large company, but very little of its user-facing functionality could change and that would no longer be true. Such hypothetical P2P network would definitely have some kind of filtering, but it would likely not be network-wide and might not even be backed by a central entity (think more email anti-spam than moderation).

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#152

Post by fluoridation »

indymike wrote: post #145
fluoridation wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the author is asking to have false, defamatory content removed. The author is asking to have content that he says is false removed. >The author is alleging that false posts are being made to lay the groundwork for the author being detained and tortured by the local justice system. Since the tweets may be used as an excuse to have him detained, removing them will do nothing, because the government could just as easil…

So basically meh, they'll torture him anyway?

If we're starting from the assumption that the government is posting false tweets that it'll use as excuses to kidnap and torture people, then I don't see what effect removing those tweets would have. A person under a real threat of violence needs real, physical protection. Anything that can be done over the Internet is insufficient.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#153

Post by bakugo »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #53
MichaelCollins wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very low opinion of twitter and certainly wish they'd do a better job. But the premise of twitter as a shield against state-sponsored kidnapping or murder seems flimsy at best.

That's not the premise. This kind of bullshit is exactly how disempowered groups get painted into a corner. Sexual assault doesn't typically begin with violent rape. It ends there. It begins with a million small forms of disrespect. Political crap follows the same pattern. If you think it doesn't fucking matter, what the hell do you care how this goes? It matters to him. If you don't care, what's wrong with saying "T…

> Sexual assault doesn't typically begin with violent rape. It ends there.

> It begins with a million small forms of disrespect.

And? Are you suggesting that "small forms of disrespect" should be treated like violent rape because there's a very vague chance that it might lead there?

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#155

Post by ljw1001 »

dnissley wrote: post #101
DoreenMichele wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a moderator. Decisions are made contextually. One of his complaints is they clearly don't know what the hell is going on in Pakistan and this is a root cause of their mishandling of things. It is a completely reasonable criticism.

Is it really reasonable? Twitter fails regularly to take such context into consideration when making moderation decisions in their home country. How could it be reasonable to expect them to get it right when it comes to the context of a foreign country?

That they fail regularly is not much of a defense. If they want to make money in Pakistan they should understand the place well enough to avoid facilitating crime.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#156

Post by Nasrudith »

satellite2 wrote: post #111
dnissley wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really reasonable? Twitter fails regularly to take such context into consideration when making moderation decisions in their home country. How could it be reasonable to expect them to get it right when it comes to the context of a foreign country?

Assuming Twitter is serving the Pakistani market, making revenue and paying taxes there, it seems reasonable to ask for the same quality controls as elsewhere. In particular hiring Pakistanis for moderation shouldn't be economically devastating for their operations in this country. So on top of being a very reasonable request it should be a minimum requirement of their operating model.

In practice that would mean the third world would get cut off as not worth it and many complaints about information apartheid or similar condemning terms.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#157

Post by remram »

zionic wrote: post #64
MichaelCollins wrote: post #29

Being realistic: if your life hangs by the thread of twitter moderation, you should either run and hide, or get your affairs in order. If they really want you dead, even the best possible twitter moderation won't keep you safe. This whole circumstance of people wanting you dead is not twitters fault and there is very little twitter could do to protect you even if their moderation was perfect.

This is why I prefer “protocols over platforms”. This entire thing isn’t twitters fault any more than it is WiFi’s, DNS, or TCP’s.

That would be true if Twitter was a protocol, or even wanted to be a protocol. It's a platform though, that's its entire business model.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#158

Post by remram »

deltree7 wrote: post #61
DoreenMichele wrote: post #30

I am sorry for the responses I am seeing on HN. People with cushy lives who've likely never faced similar danger seem to just not really get it. I will say that your framing is one that most Westerners will have trouble taking seriously. It might go over better to document known cases where this pattern occurred and show the similarities. Walk people through it like they are five, so to speak. I know it's hard to do…

People with cushy lives, working for some mid-level corp writing CRUD apps used by 20 people, also have never faced the challenges of moderation at million people scale. So, it kind of cuts both ways

I would understand if the rhetoric was centered around "it's very hard for Twitter to do that" but the detraction in the comments reads more "Twitter shouldn't do that".

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#159

Post by yibg »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #42
MichaelCollins wrote: post #29

Being realistic: if your life hangs by the thread of twitter moderation, you should either run and hide, or get your affairs in order. If they really want you dead, even the best possible twitter moderation won't keep you safe. This whole circumstance of people wanting you dead is not twitters fault and there is very little twitter could do to protect you even if their moderation was perfect.

He's not asking Twitter to protect him from murder. He's asking them to do their damn job so the platform cannot be used to facilitate a smear campaign that makes it easy to get away with murder. It's a very reasonable request.

Problem is who determines if it’s a smear campaign? The author claims it was, and I tend to believe him but I haven’t investigated. Have you? And then, how determines if it’s extreme enough to warrant some action? In the ideal world sure there would be an army of people investigating every case in detail. But then 1) Twitter becomes the arbiter of truth and 2) definitely can’t scale.

Re: They're trying to get me kidnapped and tortured, but Twitter doesn't care

#160

Post by indymike »

fluoridation wrote: post #152
indymike wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically meh, they'll torture him anyway?

If we're starting from the assumption that the government is posting false tweets that it'll use as excuses to kidnap and torture people, then I don't see what effect removing those tweets would have. A person under a real threat of violence needs real, physical protection. Anything that can be done over the Internet is insufficient.

It removes pretext used for justification of seizure and torture. Doing nothing enables the oppressor in this case.
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