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The gathering crisis in the UK

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Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#151

Post by DiggyJohnson »

klelatti wrote: post #122
dragontamer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know if it it was or not, but a few counter-points is not proof. Literally no one in politics thinks about purely short term issues actually. I *disagree* with my political opponents, but that's because my vision of the next 30 years is grossly different than their vision of the next 30 years. ----- This isn't about "counter-examples". This is about you failing to provide even the first example of short-ter…

Maybe some of the Brexit crowd was thinking about the long term but Johnson certainly wasn’t: he was thinking about his chances of getting into No 10.

Politicians always are thinking about their next election. The issue of elected (I understand the PM appointment process by the way) shouldn’t be a revelation to anyone.

It still stands that these short cited representatives and officials champion policies that come from without, not within, their own scheming.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#153

Post by DiggyJohnson »

jacquesm wrote: post #113
airza wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if your country's politics can be this badly steamrolled by a kleptocracy with the GDP of Italy then maybe, just maybe, you live in a failed state.

This is victim blaming. Destruction is asymmetrical compared to creation. It takes one idiot with a match and 30 seconds to burn your house down. Doesn't mean your house wasn't properly constructed.

Victim blaming is akin to taking responsibility in very many domains. This is becoming a bit of a cognitive fallacy, in my opinion.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#154

Post by catsitter »

reggieband wrote: post #78

I am reminded of the story of the fat cat that I recently read in a Brothers Grimm collection. In case it is not familiar to you: A cat and a mouse decide to team up and store up some surplus food for hard times. They agree during abundant times to both put a little extra fat into a shared pot. They then store the pot in a safe place. The cat, however, is overcome by hunger even in the abundant times. Every few weeks…

How are „the rich“ bringing the crisis about, in your opinion?

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#155

Post by oliwarner »

Nextgrid wrote: post #107
prof-dr-ir wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer such questions I always imagine transplanting a random citizen of country 1 to country 2 and vice versa. In other words, I guess you should ask the expats. Having lived in both the UK and the US, I would say that anyone not rich is still much better off in the former because of the free healthcare, better infrastructure, cheaper education, etc. However, in my experience the UK living standards (again, for a…

> is still much better off in the former because of the free healthcare Is it? The NHS is completely useless since the pandemic for anything non-emergency (can't comment for emergencies). You go private or you go without. Whether it's still cheaper than US, I don't know - US healthcare is priced to milk out as much cash as possible out of insurance policies, so I'm not sure what the true price is when you negotiate a…

> You go private or you go without.

This is vastly overstating it. The third option is waiting. Many hours at A&E, months for non-urgent surgery, but it's there and it's still free.

If you demand next-hour treatment, yeah, it's not that, but they're doing their best.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#156

Post by catsitter »

banannaise wrote: post #96
usgroup wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about the budget deficit? It’s not really like a pot you only look into when times are hard since it’s constantly known. I really like your metaphor, but it is misleading.

It's not the budget. It's the hidden cuts to services, the declining maintenance to infrastructure, the privatization of essentials. Those are the licks they take from the pot, while they tell you the pot is still full.

The money to pay for those things would have to come from you, the people. They are not taking it away, there is nothing to distribute.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#157

Post by catsitter »

mjevans wrote: post #10

Some of England's problems are unique to them, but I think the reason those who voted for Brexit did so is that they felt the current deal wasn't working for them. Already, way back then, they weren't on a path to a bright future where there was a house of their own to live in, a job that was a good fit for them and society, a future to believe in. I believe the same things that fueled Brexit persist as malaise today…

Who is squeezing „less well off“ and making unregulated profits?

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#158

Post by catsitter »

PaulHoule wrote: post #3

It's a bit like blaming the Democrats for the political crisis in the US but I have to ask "what the hell is wrong with Labor?" The Tories have dominated politics in the UK since the later 1970s except for the Blair administration, and Blair was an honorary Tory.

Funny, from the outside, UK always sounds as if it is overrun by leftist politics. I wouldn‘t have guessed tories were in charge most of the time.

London has a Labor major and it is the economic Center, so maybe there was a lot of Labor influence on the economy after all?

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#159

Post by asdff »

catsitter wrote: post #158
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

It's a bit like blaming the Democrats for the political crisis in the US but I have to ask "what the hell is wrong with Labor?" The Tories have dominated politics in the UK since the later 1970s except for the Blair administration, and Blair was an honorary Tory.

Funny, from the outside, UK always sounds as if it is overrun by leftist politics. I wouldn‘t have guessed tories were in charge most of the time. London has a Labor major and it is the economic Center, so maybe there was a lot of Labor influence on the economy after all?

Maybe if you know nothing of Margaret Thatcher...

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#160

Post by TMWNN »

damagednoob wrote: post #46
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

It's a bit like blaming the Democrats for the political crisis in the US but I have to ask "what the hell is wrong with Labor?" The Tories have dominated politics in the UK since the later 1970s except for the Blair administration, and Blair was an honorary Tory.

A couple of things: Tories have done well to court the people that show up at the polls with things like keeping the Triple-Lock pension guarantee[1]. Like the Democrats, Labour's demographics have started to shift more to the well-educated (though I suspect this will swing back massively, come the next election). This alienated their traditional working class base who care more about their own economic realities tha…

>Young Labour went out of their way to paint pro-Brexiters as racists and bigots. The dirty secret is that even Corbyn has been a long time Euro-sceptic.

I'm pretty sure that a reason Labour did much better than expected in the 2017 general election is that Brexit voters suspected that Corbyn had secretly voted for Leave.

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