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IRS audits poorest families at five times the rate for everyone else

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Re: IRS audits poorest families at five times the rate for everyone else

#151

Post by albatross13 »

alphakappa wrote: post #146
albatross13 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>without requiring more funding I might be missing something here, but are you disregarding the 80bn the IRS just got for another 87,000 auditors? Or are we talking funding for something else?

The 87,000 additional auditors is a misleading interpretation [1] Summary: - IRS used to have over 100,000 employees a decade back. This number has fallen due to funding cuts etc to less than 78,000 today. - The employees are not just auditors - they are support people for tax filing, IT etc. - There will be further employee attrition over the next decade that would need to be backfilled. - What Congress has given th…

> and in some misleading reports, gun toting

Is that why they posted this job description, and then deleted it?

https://web.archive.org/web/20220804060409/https://www.jobs....

Good luck in what's to come, friend. I hope you're ready :)

Re: IRS audits poorest families at five times the rate for everyone else

#152

Post by rglover »

josephcsible wrote: post #100
rglover wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wouldn't it make more sense to focus on the big fish first? Of course, but the reason they don't is that the tax system is a psychological control mechanism disguised as "doing good" (I make that assertion by looking at the utter amount of careless, unaccountable waste in government despite the endless gaslighting about "muh roads"). Why? Because if you can keep the majority in the psychological bracket of being th…

> Everyone above that pays 10%. I hope you mean 10% of the amount of the part of their income that's above the line, and not 10% of their total income. Otherwise, this would cause a horrible welfare cliff.

You wouldn't need welfare in this scenario and that's the point. Let people keep all or the majority of their money (thus enabling more potential for prosperity if the individual is responsible).

If the point of tax dollars is to fund some form of socialism (e.g., for the disabled or others who can't care for themselves), then allocate the majority of tax revenue to that and strip down the federal government to bare essentials (as it should be). Also offer tax credits to people who offer amounts above 10% for allocation to such costs.

There's plenty of ways to take care of others without letting it burn up in the hands of the unproductive class (edit: meaning the government, not people who can't care for themselves).

Re: IRS audits poorest families at five times the rate for everyone else

#153

Post by mercy_dude »

Yeah and in the name of “inflation reduction” act, we have now decided to double the number of agents and make IRS the most bureaucratic heavy federal agency. Not to say they are heavily weaponized by one known party over their opposition, and when caught in the act nothing happened to thee agents.

These federal agencies and their overreach go way beyond their scope. It is time to abolish these agencies.

Re: IRS audits poorest families at five times the rate for everyone else

#154

Post by [deleted] »

axus wrote: post #135
washbrain wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is 100% the story. The IRS can help make sure everyone is playing fair if we sufficiently fund them. And they can stop policing all the little issues and go after the big ones if we sufficiently fund them. AND sufficiently funding them is expected to increase tax revenue above the cost of funding them . It's the most obvious and should be the most bipartisan approach. It's introducing no new taxes, it's equitabl…

If dodging/bungling taxes were a Civil matter instead of a Criminal matter, it might be easier to get support for better enforcement.

[deleted]

Re: IRS audits poorest families at five times the rate for everyone else

#155

Post by albatross13 »

trebbble wrote: post #143
albatross13 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>article about IRS auditing >person I'm replying to is talking about funding for auditing >IRS says they're going to hire 87,000 more auditors Gee I wonder what the results will be.

> Gee I wonder what the results will be. On the FY 2021 audit rate? Little or no effect, I expect.

I'll take that wager- the IRS will audit you back what six years if they want to?

The smart money says a government that's 24 trillion in debt, beholden to a private central bank that printed 16 trillion to keep alive a fake economy in the face of a flu, will probably up its FY 2021 audit rate.

I'll check back with you in a few years to see how I did ;)

Re: IRS audits poorest families at five times the rate for everyone else

#156

Post by selimthegrim »

Test0129 wrote: post #114
jmyeet wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the IRS just supposed to ignore that? Yes. Or, better yet, just give it to everyone and pay for it by: 1. Eliminating the carried interest tax credit, which has somehow survived 15+ years. It is quite literally a giveaway to hedge fund managers who get to pay lower taxes on managements because reasons. It most recently survived by being removed from the Inflation Reduction Act at the behest of Senator Kirsten Se…

This is certainly the hottest possible hot take. > Have inheritance trigger a taxable event. This includes, by extension, allowing heirs to inherit stocks and property on a stepped up basis for CGT purposes; This works for billionaires but harms regular people. If you applied capital gains tax to grandpa's modest gift to his grandchildren the grand children may very well end up with nearly nothing. In many states pro…

> I pay so much tax as a software engineer I'd like to see other people get pounded by the IRS

This sounds like a Chuck Tingle commission waiting to happen

Re: IRS audits poorest families at five times the rate for everyone else

#158

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

cortesoft wrote: post #110
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, better yet, just give it to everyone and pay for it by The IRS doesn't author tax policy. Congress is over there --->

Sure, but as the article states, the IRS is already ignoring entire categories of tax fraud that is illegal under the law. This means the clearly have discretion over what to pursue. They could choose not to pursue EITC fraud at all.

Would it be rational to audit (say) one additional millionaire rather than correcting objectively massive fraud/error rates in the EITC? I would say not. Then the question remains is what the break-even point is. Neither you nor I know the internal numbers here so it's impossible to discuss whether the current policy is reasonable or not.

Re: IRS audits poorest families at five times the rate for everyone else

#159

Post by DavidPeiffer »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #89
wongarsu wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interesting to see how the ratio of revenue agents to tax examiners would shift if the IRS would get a portion of discovered tax fraud back into their budget.

Looked into this years ago in a semi-related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21874358 https://www.finance.senate.gov/ranking-members-news/irs-budg... > IRS Research Division estimates in the 2003 GAO report, however, placed returns for activities such as tax enforcement at more than ten – and in some cases more than 20 – dollars collected for every dollar spent. Phone calls to follow up on tax debts…

> Imagine 20 dollars per dollar spent, that's the type of unicorn investment that basically every VC hunts for.

It's frustrating that every business person who has ever lived would absolutely throw money at that formula if it was part of their business, but that's not politically popular because the IRS costs money to operate.

Mathemarically it makes sense to go until you hit 1:1. If we increased enforcement until, say, 4 dollars collected for every 1 spent in each of the major categories, the deterrent factor would probably help people be more honest in times of dishonesty, naturally helping the problem for the following year.

Re: IRS audits poorest families at five times the rate for everyone else

#160

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

washbrain wrote: post #66
jeffwask wrote: post #39

The budget for the IRS has been continually slashed since Reagan despite all research on the subject showing increasing funding to the IRS funding increased revenue well beyond it's cost. The IRS has publicly stated on a number of occasions they do not go after the wealthy because they do not have the resources to win in the ensuing legal battles. This leaves the poor and middle class as the only groups they can targ…

This is 100% the story. The IRS can help make sure everyone is playing fair if we sufficiently fund them. And they can stop policing all the little issues and go after the big ones if we sufficiently fund them. AND sufficiently funding them is expected to increase tax revenue above the cost of funding them . It's the most obvious and should be the most bipartisan approach. It's introducing no new taxes, it's equitabl…

For every $1 of additional funding, the IRS brings in $3. They're the only federal government entity for which this is true. Increasing their finding should be an absolute no-brainer, but many powerful people have a vested interest in keeping the IRS weak and small and underfunded, so that's what we've got.
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