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Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

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Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#151

Post by eli »

intunderflow wrote: post #41

And slowly but surely the tidal wave of the consequences of GDPR versus the CLOUD Act come into view. It will take many years to of delays and fretting (due to the dependence on US clouds) but fundamentally the current legal position is that GDPR is fundamentally incompatible with any personal data transfer to the USA, that's how Google Analytics keeps getting banned too. At some point this will all come to a head an…

But couldn't the NSA still spy on European cloud providers and domain registrars?

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#152

Post by viro »

josefx wrote: post #96
mgraczyk wrote: post #51

Sounds like blatant protectionism to me. If I'm reading the ruling correctly, the relevant legal standard applied here is completely bogus. They find that it is a violation of GDPR because the parent company could access the data, in principle if they wanted to. It doesn't matter if there are safeguards, technical, or institutional preventions in place. However, the exact same argument applies to any EU company with…

> It doesn't matter if there are safeguards, technical, or institutional preventions in place. Except the American company made it clear that no such safeguards will be in place and that it will transfer the data out of its EU servers if legally complied to do so. This can be found in the German text at https://rewis.io/urteile/urteil/ocw-13-07-2022-1-vk-2322/ . > Regions. Customer can specify the location(s) where C…

> that it will transfer the data out of its EU servers if legally complied to do so.

They have a legal search warrant, This is a EU country they likely have Law enforcement and judicial cooperation treaty with the US.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#153

Post by kazen44 »

kazinator wrote: post #80
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you are aware that "the cloud" is not some secret, mysterious piece of technology that the EU can't figure out. We have software engineers as well as data centers and EU-based cloud companies. Digital consumer networks were established here long before the U.S and the internet was invented here. Your arrogance is grating.

> Digital consumer networks were established here long before the U.S Really? In some places in Europe, people were starting to get excited about dial-up BBSes in the mid nineties, a decade after they were on their way out in North America. In 1994 I was doing contract work in Vancouver on a website with paying subscribers.

> Really? In some places in Europe, people were starting to get excited about dial-up BBSes in the mid nineties.

What is your point exactly? Half of europe was still transitioning to a market economy or in a (civil) war/conflict in the 90's.

I am also sure, that a lot of places in the US didn't have internet access in the 90's.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#154

Post by xdennis »

blocked_again wrote: post #139
simion314 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when is about TikTok I see most americans have completely different values, no sorry americans are consistent, only US citizens deserve rights, the rest can be spied on, tortured,killed etc. Give EU citizens same privacy rights and there so no need to start an economic war because some NSA fat and lazy agent does not want to prepare a file to request a warrant. If you are at it, maybe is tiem to let US citizens t…

You do know that nobody in US is forcing you to use this site or any other US companies for that matter. You are doing it with your own free fill. Also, remember the time when Germany decided to go after their own people? How does laws like this help when it comes to situations like that?

I'm not sure what you're saying. Do you mean that each individual is supposed to know where every site is based instead of having country-wide/EU-wide protections in place?

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#155

Post by throwaway4good »

AnonMO wrote: post #128
throwaway4good wrote: post #76

Hey America - stop spying on our our citizens or we will stop buying your tech. Seriously. We talk about this cloud stuff like it is rocket science. It is not. It is a box in a basement. We are capable of doing that ourselves. And no. It ain’t cool for NSA to sniff around some German governmental software, even though you are the good guys and on our side.

[flagged]

I am all for a free and open internet. If you want to connect to a computer in Russia or United States, that is ok, think about what happens to your data, if you care about that, or don't.

But here we are talking about whether the German government should use hosting centers, for their governmental software, they know are accesible to US intelligence services.

The answer to that is: Of course not.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#156

Post by kazen44 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #118
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the Web if you prefer.

They're two different things. The Internet was invented in the US. I'm European as well, but not sure why you'd need to overreach to claim we invented the Internet.

packet based networking was invented in the US...

The internet was created by meshing many different networks together (mostly ARPANET and SFNET).

Networks which now form the backbone of the internet also existed in europe at the time, mainly in britain and france.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#157

Post by mopsi »

legalcorrection wrote: post #90

Quoted post unavailable.

> they are too poor to afford ubiquitous air conditioning

And I could say that americans are too poor to have heated bathroom floors, but that'd be ignorant.

Europe is much further north and has significantly colder climate than the US: https://imgur.com/oIjh5eQ The main concern is insulation and heating, not cooling, hence much more expensive buildings overall compared to cheap wooden homes in the US.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#158

Post by xdennis »

blocked_again wrote: post #113
lizardactivist wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"European countries doing poorly when it comes to modern tech" has never been an opinion. You're confused, and your petty vindictiveness is unmotivated. The EU as a space of commerce is not yours to do with as you wish. You have to follow rules and regulations just like our own companies have to. And if your country had not been engaging in espionage and sabotage then there would never have been a need for these "unf…

Quoted post unavailable.

> You really think laws like this is going to stop US government/NSA from accessing data of whoever they are interested?

1) So if you're helpless you're supposed to not defend yourself at all?

2) Why did they pass the CLOUD Act if they already have access?

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#159

Post by htkibar »

bettysdiagnose wrote: post #109
legalcorrection wrote: post #90

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

People like being edgy in the end, I guess.

They literally claim that "EU is an American protectorate". At this point, it is literally pointless to even have a dialogue, as they is far gone.

Re: Usage of EU subsidiaries of US cloud providers deemed unlawful by German court

#160

Post by srrr »

xyzzyz wrote: post #15
f-jin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't the crux of the matter the all-reaching laws of the US that allows their intelligence agencies to order EU-subsidiaries of US companies to offer up their data..?

I would be frankly shocked if EU countries did not have the same laws on the book. If German court serves Volkswagen AG a warrant for data kept by Volkswagen America, can Volkswagen AG just not comply?

A German court can not, in fact, serve a court order to Volkswagen America. (Technically it can, but the order is not enforceable.) A German court is also forbidden to force Volkswagen AG to reach into Volkswagen America because these are separate legal entities.

A German court would use judicial assistance and ask US law enforcement to help. US law enforcement would then adhere to local laws and protect the rights of US citizens while trying to help.

This is named Mutual legal assistance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_legal_assistance_treaty .

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