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Cramming 'Papers, Please' onto Phones

dukope.com

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Re: Cramming 'Papers, Please' onto Phones

#151

Post by bogwog »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #91
JoeyJoJoJr wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Zui with Kha/Haxe - an immediate mode GUI library. I cannot overstate how immediate mode GUI greatly simplifies ui development. React is massive step up from OOP/scenegraph/display list style gui, but it is still so complex and cumbersome compared to immediate mode. I can’t fathom why there is such little exploration in this space and it seems mostly limited to gamedev. https://github.com/armory3d/zui

Immediate mode GUI makes perfect sense for applications that repaint themselves all the time 60 (or more) times per second, as they're already doing the work and there's little overhead added by handling such GUI. I can deal with 3D editor working this way, but I don't think I would be very happy if my e-mail client did.

That's just an implementation detail. The main benefits of an immediate mode UI is the API for using it. There's no reason that the loop has to run at 60 FPS. It could even be event-based, so it only updates when the user does something, for example.

Re: Cramming 'Papers, Please' onto Phones

#152

Post by seba_dos1 »

deathanatos wrote: post #92
wly_cdgr wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This blog post is good, but is pretty average stuff for a real professional. You are just used to reading webdev tip&trick postlets from third-rate hacks

No, this is definitely high-quality. Like the person you're responding to, far higher quality than a lot of professional work I've seen. This is very clearly someone who cares about the end result, not just about getting it done, and a lot of work I've seen in my career, the person cares more about just getting it done, than they do about getting it done right. I'd also say it's about having the skill to do this: as…

I believe it all boils down to being an artist working on a project you're passionate about. If I was forced to work on someone else's project that I don't really care about just to make a living, I'd probably simply execute my tasks to make sure I reach the expectations, and that's it. I'd strive to finish my tasks fast to have more time doing something I actually care about, be it a side project, hobby, family time or even just a walk in a park. However, when I'm a one-man orchestra doing a project where my main motivation is to see that project being done, it's actually getting hard to restrain myself from going into all those interesting rabbit holes that could easily postpone the completion of that project almost indefinitely. I find it hard not to hone my skills and dig into stuff to understand it in that setting.

(of course, when I was young it was easy for me to get passionate not about the project itself, but on mere technical aspects of work I was doing for someone else; this kind of motivation, however, doesn't last very long unless you're able to change your job often to keep it fresh and challenging)

What I deeply regret is that I struggle with writing about stuff I'm doing. There's a lot of interesting knowledge one acquires from such projects, but it often gets almost lost and only really lives on as a vague "experience" you can indirectly apply to your future projects. I would like to have my own experiences written down in such a neat way like in this post, not just for publicity, but also for my own personal needs when I want to go back to something I've done years ago. Usually, my attempts end with an unfinished, incomplete document that gets so out of date before completion that it's best to throw it out and start over, which of course doesn't happen until the memory of what I've done becomes foggy enough to make reminding myself what to write about a challenge on its own :( As it is right now, I'd struggle to describe the vast majority of my past passion work if anyone asked me about it; I'd need plenty of time and some "detective work" to reconstruct my memories.

Re: Cramming 'Papers, Please' onto Phones

#153

Post by the_af »

vanderZwan wrote: post #136
kergonath wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of Papers, Please more than actually playing it, I think. But I never played Helsing’s Fire, thanks for the suggestion!

This may be true, but in the same way that paintings don't have to be "beautiful" to be good paintings, games don't always have to be fun experiences to be good games. I think Papers Please is a perfect example of such a game. I didn't enjoy it so much as that it engaged me in its bleak bureaucracy.

Good point!

Though I actually enjoyed "Papers, Please" gameplay. I was overjoyed when I found it has an endless mode. I enjoy stamping those red "denied"!

Re: Cramming 'Papers, Please' onto Phones

#154

Post by dclowd9901 »

rossvor wrote: post #6

If you see a devlog post from Lucas Pope you know it's going to be a goldmine. No matter the topic. Dude has a real knack in writing these, clearly describing the problem and the thought process on possible solution. And making it all very interesting so you yourself start thinking how would you address it or what other cool thing could be built instead. Here's some of his other huge devlogs on TIGSOURCE: 1. Papers,…

From a practical standpoint, I can’t even understand how he writes these! Presumably, this process took him months (a year?) to work through. What was he doing that whole time? Taking notes and captures for an eventual blog post? It just seems he has an incredible ability for organization and foresight, one that I am deeply jealous of.

Re: Cramming 'Papers, Please' onto Phones

#155

Post by aliqot »

adolph wrote: post #65
aliqot wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm noticing a lot of the younger crowd don't seem as glued to the phone as their parents. Materialists will always be materialists, but as an adherent to Ordnung, I don't own/need a phone, so it sticks out and it's obvious to me that the normal garden variety youth these days are not as absorbed as the first generation to this little thing known to 'create fire' because it is now commonplace. A computer in your pock…

The Ordnung is a set of rules for Amish, Old Order Mennonite and Conservative Mennonite living. Ordnung is the German word for order, discipline, rule, arrangement, organization, or system. Because the Amish have no central church government, each assembly is autonomous and is its own governing authority. Thus, every local church maintains an individual set of rules, adhering to its own Ordnung, which may vary from d…

Yes, nice to meet you

Re: Cramming 'Papers, Please' onto Phones

#156

Post by dclowd9901 »

frenchie14 wrote: post #104
rossvor wrote: post #6

If you see a devlog post from Lucas Pope you know it's going to be a goldmine. No matter the topic. Dude has a real knack in writing these, clearly describing the problem and the thought process on possible solution. And making it all very interesting so you yourself start thinking how would you address it or what other cool thing could be built instead. Here's some of his other huge devlogs on TIGSOURCE: 1. Papers,…

His youtube[0] also has some very interesting behind the scenes content. If you haven't seen the Obra Dinn ship building timelapse[1] you're in for a treat! (Major spoilers - don't watch unless you've already beaten the game!) [0] https://www.youtube.com/user/dukope1 [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZFoBvJf8Ug

He wrote an entire app in unity just for the schematic playback. I’m gobsmacked by his ingenuity!

Re: Cramming 'Papers, Please' onto Phones

#157

Post by marvin »

chii wrote: post #114
yojo wrote: post #30

I played through Papers, Please back when it came out on desktop, and at the time I remember wondering: "why is this fun?" I enjoyed it tremendously, but on the surface that didn't make any sense. Who wants to play an immigration officer sim? Getting this peek behind the curtain helped me understand all the little decisions that add up to an unexpectedly fun experience. The level of thought given to tiny UI interacti…

> I remember wondering: "why is this fun?" Other than the tactility of the UI (which is a major part of the game), the reason, i believe, it is fun is because the game's mechanics matches that of the actual role you play in the story. Many games don't really get this correct ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludonarrative_dissonance ). In papers please, your decisions aren't clear cut, like in a regular RPG game, where…

The "RPG" element of "obviously good, obviously evil" decision always felt contrived to me. Most people would never choose to be evil. Evil grows out of processes much more complicated and human than that.

This seemed obvious to me even when I was 14, but maybe our culture has been stuck in a place where people's understanding of good and evil does not match reality. Propaganda during WWII (or any was, really) would be an obvious culprit.

Re: Cramming 'Papers, Please' onto Phones

#158

Post by seba_dos1 »

bogwog wrote: post #151
seba_dos1 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immediate mode GUI makes perfect sense for applications that repaint themselves all the time 60 (or more) times per second, as they're already doing the work and there's little overhead added by handling such GUI. I can deal with 3D editor working this way, but I don't think I would be very happy if my e-mail client did.

That's just an implementation detail. The main benefits of an immediate mode UI is the API for using it. There's no reason that the loop has to run at 60 FPS. It could even be event-based, so it only updates when the user does something, for example.

Yes and no. That API makes certain approaches easier and other harder. Even if you manage to render only the changed parts of the screen, you still execute all your UI logic all the time so the renderer can be aware of what changed in the first place. Also, more involved stuff like animations become much more complex once you go event-based, to the point where retained mode UI may end up being a better choice from the API perspective. It all depends on what exactly you're implementing, and games often are a natural fit for immediate mode as they usually allow to keep it simple with no real downsides.

Re: Cramming 'Papers, Please' onto Phones

#159

Post by marvin »

jordanmorgan10 wrote: post #62

There’s a certain energy that’s either unmatched, or it’s just new to me, specifically from indie game developers that invigorates me. His post is just kinda filled with a “love of the game” vibe. I don’t feel like other tech related industries have that same art house feel like game developers seem to have, or at least write about. You don’t really see it in the sass space, or in my world of iOS, etc. Just something…

I think indie game devs of Pope's talent, motivation and ability are exceedingly rare. We're seeing only those who survive a filter that removes 99%. But the results are absolutely formidable.

Re: Cramming 'Papers, Please' onto Phones

#160

Post by sitkack »

bogwog wrote: post #148
mastax wrote: post #99

Haxe is really unusual and interesting, and I don't think it gets talked about enough. > Haxe can build cross-platform applications targeting JavaScript, C++, C#, Java, JVM, Python, Lua, PHP, Flash, and allows access to each platform's native capabilities. Haxe has its own VMs (HashLink and NekoVM) but can also run in interpreted mode. Compiling from one language to another isnt particularly unusual, but compiling fr…

Haxe's transpiling helped me in a project once. The client needed a small-ish web app written ASAP, but they didn't know anything about their backend/stack when asked since they were non-technical and using an external provider for everything. The provider was not responding to emails for some reason, and the deadline was approaching, so I decided to start writing the thing in Haxe. I figured they were either running…

Brilliant!
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