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Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

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Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#151

Post by sneak »

rlv-dan wrote: post #55
dsr_ wrote: post #12

This is pretty similar to the policy at my company: you get a Mac, unless you specifically request a Linux laptop. If you need Windows for testing, Microsoft makes VM images available with a browser pre-installed at https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/v...

As a long time Windows user, it would take me a considerable amount of time to get used to the operating system and all applications and utilities that I need to be productive. Not saying Windows is great, but it works for me. And I'm pretty sure they don't hire people to learn an operating system.

Another good feature of this policy is that it rules out people who explicitly identify themselves as "$OPERATING_SYSTEM user"s. Tying your identity (personal or professional) to some proprietary software brand is a little silly.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#152

Post by dgan »

This seems in phase with their anti-Microsoft wave riding, which brought many (speculating here) new customers.

Interestingly, my employer too uses GitLab, and we too prefer Linux among employees ... so i think targeting is on point

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#153

Post by mananaysiempre »

Xylakant wrote: post #114
mikeryan wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did they mention cost concerns? I’m reading this that it’s an IT/procurement hassle dealing with the Windows Pro upgrade licenses, on a platform they don’t feel is secure, not a cost issue.

The linux laptop they propose comes by default with an included Pro license, home edition would need to be selected extra. I haven‘t used Dell in a while, but I‘d assume that it behave like Lenovo and has the License Key baked right into the EFI, so there‘s literally no need to deal with any upgrade license if you proscribe which Laptop Model people are allowed to purchase (which they do) They also mention multiple t…

They specifically mention Dell laptops with Ubuntu preinstalled.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#154

Post by hatware »

horsawlarway wrote: post #9

I'm no fan of Windows myself, but I find this a fairly bad policy. If nothing else - what's not used is not tested. And if you expect any real population of users to be using Windows machines with your products, you should have developers/PMs/QA/support interacting with your products using Windows machines. I see this as: We're saving a bit of money and making ITs life easier, and in exchange users will get a worse p…

> I find this a fairly bad policy.

How many engineers have you worked with that ONLY worked in Windows, and did it better than anyone else...?

It's just a filter.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#155

Post by scottydelta »

> As many purchases of laptops have occurred with employees making the purchases and then being reimbursed by GitLab, a remote employee would typically be making a purchase of a laptop pre-loaded with Windows Home Edition.

Windows Home Edition is notoriously hard to secure.

This is a totally valid point. Anyone who has worked for big companies know how companies secure systems using security policies which are not available on home edition and tough to setup on Profesional license bought by user.

If a user really wants to do something on windows then I am sure they can run it in VirtualBox or VMware on their system.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#156

Post by celdon25 »

habnds wrote: post #3

>> GitLab approves the use of Linux, and Apple's macOS. Microsoft Windows is prohibited for the following reasons: Due to Microsoft Windows' dominance in desktop operating systems, Windows is the platform most targetted by spyware, viruses, and ransomware. macOS is preinstalled on Apple computers and Linux is available free of charge. To approve the use of Windows, GitLab would have to purchase Windows Professional l…

> Due to Microsoft Windows' dominance in desktop operating systems, Windows is the platform most targetted by spyware, viruses, and ransomware.

That may be true, but a much higher proportion of downloaded Mac software lacks code signing. Opting in to that as a developer on the Mac will carry a lot of risk of kafkaesque deactivation and, and most don’t want to deal with that. On Windows, on the other hand, it’s like getting an SSL certificate. Apple’s philosophy on the developer program is antiquated, obsolete, and has compromised the security of the platform.

How many Mac users do you think limit themselves to only signed apps? It’s much easier to do this on Windows (but requires a small amount of technical understanding, or is it too much for Gitlab employees?). But when you enforce the policy at the corporate domain level, you won’t be neutering the machine’s usefulness as you would on the Mac. Unsigned apps on Windows tend to be the janky ones, while the signed apps found on the Apple Store tend to be garbage in my experience.

Relying on “less malware is created for Mac” is a terrible idea in general. This isn’t the 90’s. When you are Gitlab, a high value target for sophisticated, targeted attacks, that won’t help you.

Good Security is a balancing act between safety and convenience, and Apple gets it completely wrong. Therefore I would be very cautious about trusting Gitlab’s security posture given their apparent ignorance on the subject.

From https://developer.apple.com/support/certificates/

> If your certificate expires, users can no longer launch installer packages for your Mac applications that were signed with this certificate.

> Apple Developer Program membership is required to request, download, and use signing certificates issued by Apple.

> Note: Apple can revoke digital certificates at any time at its sole discretion. For more information, read the Apple Developer Program License Agreement in your developer account.

… and many paragraphs detailing what parts of your app will break when certificates are revoked.

There are more nuances involved than I care to list in full here, though I’d be happy to be proven wrong about this.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#157

Post by ShakataGaNai »

jchw wrote: post #18

This is not actually that unusual; in fact, if I'm not misremembering, Google also does not generally allow Windows, aside from some limited, less privileged stuff.

IIRC Apple is the same way. It requires extremely special dispensation to even get a Windows VM (ex: iTunes & Safari on Windows groups).

It's not uncommon at all, to be honest. I've done IT at startups where we said "Mac Only". Why? Because supporting multiple platforms is a lot of work. You need to do everything twice. All the software security done twice (and differently for each). Rolling out something new to the employee base? Two different sets of instructions. Setting up conference rooms with power bricks and video adapters? Had to be done twice (though this was a while ago, that is less of an issue now).

For small teams, it's just a workload that may not be doable. It's not like someone in IT says "I hate Windows, we're going to go Apple only", but often times a "Well, we're 90% Mac already, lets stick to just that". And yes, even with the "Apple Tax" its still overall cheaper to buy/support just macs.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#158

Post by davidmichael »

Tajnymag wrote: post #49
polskibus wrote: post #34

How do they develop and test the gitlab runner for Windows then?

In a VM.

Wouldn't they still have the same licensing issues then? Maybe this is just a workstation issue and they still allow/support some Windows server OSes.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#159

Post by Xylakant »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #153
Xylakant wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linux laptop they propose comes by default with an included Pro license, home edition would need to be selected extra. I haven‘t used Dell in a while, but I‘d assume that it behave like Lenovo and has the License Key baked right into the EFI, so there‘s literally no need to deal with any upgrade license if you proscribe which Laptop Model people are allowed to purchase (which they do) They also mention multiple t…

They specifically mention Dell laptops with Ubuntu preinstalled.

If you follow the link to the model in their page, it selects the default version with Windows 11 PRO. You can explicitly choose Ubuntu, but it‘s not the default. My point here is „acquiring the license for a windows based laptop is a non-issue if you‘re willing to spend the 70USD it costs.“.

Re: Microsoft Windows is prohibited at Gitlab

#160

Post by Kwpolska »

eminence32 wrote: post #32

I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that gitlab is fully remote. In an office where you have on-site IT staff, and a local corporate LAN, you can require every windows machine to be part of AD, have group security policies pushed out, and generally have tools available for central management. But with gitlab, everyone is working in their own networks around the world. That sounds like a very hard enviro…

Azure AD? A VPN with access to the domain controller?

Nah, GitLab just hates Microsoft.

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