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Linux 5.19

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Re: Linux 5.19

#151

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

motoboi wrote: post #116
nicoburns wrote: post #21

Somewhat surprisingly, Linux support for Apple Silicon MacBooks seems to be shaping up to be better than that for pretty much any other laptop. The Asahi team don’t have support for everything yet (notably no GPU) but what they do have support for seems to be high quality, well integrated with Linux’s conventions, and upstreamed into the mainline kernel! How much other hardware can claim that? The Asahi developers ha…

The best Linux support is always where most Linux developers work on. This seems like obvious but really is not. As long MacBooks keep being the insane machines they now are, they will soon become (and keep being) the best Linux machines available. Just because people will make sure of that.

Not disagreeing (or agreeing) with you about that, but as a coda I would note that I find it somewhat absurd that laptops have become the typical platform for developers. It implies something about what drives people's choices for working environment that I find strange. I do have a laptop, and I appreciate it being portable and thus being able to do work away from my (home) office. But most of the time I work on "desktop" system (Threadripper 2950X) with 3 screens, a fantastic keyboard, an even better mouse and many other things in the physical environment that improve my working experience. In short, it makes essentially no difference to me how "insane" MacBooks might be - they will never replace my "desktop" system for work.

Apparently, this is an area where if I'm not in the actual minority, I'm certainly in the quieter faction.

Re: Linux 5.19

#152

Post by bombcar »

bzxcvbn wrote: post #138
nicce wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is not the law, it is the only reasonable attempt to solve dependency issues. If the software gets an major release when author feels like it, then version itself tells nothing about the changes. Then dependant software can never estimate the impact of update. I agree that Linux Kernel is a bit different, since it sits on top of everyrhing, but still.

> Then dependant software can never estimate the impact of update. They can read the changelog. And if they can't be bothered to read the changelog, then why even update?

Semver is a bandaid on a gaping chest wound, that can best be summed up as "major version number changes may break everything, or they may not, but minor version numbers might not break everything, but they may."

It's more of a philosophy than a law, and it can't really be relied on that much; as often the developers themselves can't accurately predict what is a major breaking change and what isn't.

The Linux kernel itself has some baggage from the 2.4/2.6 era that Linus is explicitly walking away from.

Re: Linux 5.19

#153

Post by RL_Quine »

petepete wrote: post #143
RL_Quine wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. The 10th gen X1 Carbon has basically nothing functional unless you are running master kernel, and even then it's not completely there. It's just an unusable paperweight at the moment, the OLED screen is pretty though.

I have a 7th gen X1 Carbon and everything, including the fingerprint reader, worked out of the box with Fedora.

It is from August 2019 though.

Re: Linux 5.19

#154

Post by rowanG077 »

capableweb wrote: post #150
rowanG077 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple actively helped Asahi Linux by changing the boot process. NVidia actively works against Linux by using things like the GPL condom. Nvidia is like that kid that is forced by a teacher to do something and then proceeds to do it in the most shitheaded way but just enough for it to work while actively working against the spirit of the request of the teacher. Apple in contrast has helped Asahi Linux for literally no…

Apple helped Asahi allegedly . There is no explicit support of Asahi from Apple, just to be 100% clear. The change you're talking about is likely to have been for Asahi, but no statement from Apple so far about it.

Allegedly? Apple added a feature useless for themselves but something Asahi Linux benefited from greatly. Can't really make it more clear then this. Or do you expect Tim Cook to announce Asahi Linux in the next keynote?

Re: Linux 5.19

#155

Post by Gracana »

hnlmorg wrote: post #149
Gracana wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Text entry fields in mac programs accept emacs mode ctrl combos. c-a, e, u etc.

I just tried that in 3 different applications: Finder (search bar), Notes, and Slack (just in case it was an Electron specific behaviour). I couldn't get those readline/emacs bindings to work on either. This is a brand new MacBook Pro with all the defaults for the UK region so it's definitely not something I've (knowingly) disabled. Is this something that needs to be enabled? Or is it dependant on something else to w…

Weird! https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236 lists them under "document shortcuts." Well, not c-u although I swear that one worked too. Maybe they removed them and this document is out of date? I haven't used a mac in a long time, so it's possible. Damn shame if they did, I always liked that feature.

[edit] A friend checked on his Montery machine and said they work as expected in system text boxes.

Re: Linux 5.19

#156

Post by capableweb »

rowanG077 wrote: post #154
capableweb wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple helped Asahi allegedly . There is no explicit support of Asahi from Apple, just to be 100% clear. The change you're talking about is likely to have been for Asahi, but no statement from Apple so far about it.

Allegedly? Apple added a feature useless for themselves but something Asahi Linux benefited from greatly. Can't really make it more clear then this. Or do you expect Tim Cook to announce Asahi Linux in the next keynote?

Maybe the "allegedly" is misplaced, I hope my overall point is clear anyway. Apple haven't "officially" helped Asahi, the change could have be made by a single contributor to the kernel for example, or more of a "why not" change without regarding Asahi specifically. We (unless you work at Apple) don't really know at this point.

Re: Linux 5.19

#157

Post by jcelerier »

microtonal wrote: post #124
Loic wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it depends on your Lenovo series. I have been using exclusively T and X laptop for the past 20+ years and it always worked perfectly. There was a time where the battery life was better with Windows, but maybe only 2 or 3 years "in-between". Nowadays, the hardware support is for me a non issue.

I had a T14 AMD for 8 months or so last years and it was death by a thousand paper cuts. Wake from (S3) sleep would not work well, e.g. the trackpad/point would often not come back up. Sometimes the GPU wouldn't wake properly. The fingerprint reader rarely worked. Bluetooth was very flaky. Battery life was much worse than Windows. I had a Lenovo USB-C dock. However, Linux configured the lanes wrong, making it impossi…

> Wake from (S3) sleep would not work well, e.g. the trackpad/point would often not come back up. Sometimes the GPU wouldn't wake properly. The fingerprint reader rarely worked. Bluetooth was very flaky.

except the fingerprint one because I don't have a fingerprint reader, I had all these issues on my windows laptop

Re: Linux 5.19

#158

Post by the_gipsy »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #151
motoboi wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best Linux support is always where most Linux developers work on. This seems like obvious but really is not. As long MacBooks keep being the insane machines they now are, they will soon become (and keep being) the best Linux machines available. Just because people will make sure of that.

Not disagreeing (or agreeing) with you about that, but as a coda I would note that I find it somewhat absurd that laptops have become the typical platform for developers. It implies something about what drives people's choices for working environment that I find strange. I do have a laptop, and I appreciate it being portable and thus being able to do work away from my (home) office. But most of the time I work on "de…

You can use a laptop as a desktop, but not the other way around.

Re: Linux 5.19

#159

Post by coldpie »

School-Cotton wrote: post #115
nicce wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we can conclude, that the the big star of open source is not enforcing the child of open source :( Ref SemVer: https://semver.org/

I find it irritating when people quote semver like it’s some kind of law. It’s a random protocol someone came up with that some other people decided to follow. It’s nowhere near a de facto standard for version numbers: plenty of software has non-semver version numbers (in fact, this applies to all software I have worked on so far in my career!)

I think it's pretty clear semver doesn't really have a place in modern software. Except for Microsoft, no one cares about backwards compatibility, which semver is all about. All software is continually developed, every release contains both new features and bug fixes, which violates semver. The vast majority of software has a meaningless "1." or "0." tacked to the front to try to satisfy semver, until the project gets bored of typing it and just drops it.

I think most software should just have date-based versioning. It fits the development models we actually use far better, and actually communicates useful information to the user, unlike semver. Are you running a kernel from 2016? Might wanna update that.

Re: Linux 5.19

#160

Post by amelius »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #140
amelius wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if Apple provided a better GPU driver, as a non-free kernel blob?

I have literally no idea – but since it hasn't happened and isn't likely to happen… who cares?

I care. It's kind of strange if you're against undocumented software but still run on undocumented hardware. I'm hoping the providers of the tools I use can see this too.
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