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Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

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Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#151

Post by zeroonetwothree »

drstewart wrote: post #104
somehnguy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Who is asking for $100/hr at this level? 2. Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help. What a strange comment imo. I can’t take the ‘everything will go up!’ stance seriously while higher ups are buying 10 houses and private jets. The wage gap is atrocious. By the way, Switzerland’s GDP is 748 billion vs the United States’ 20.94 trillion. Comparing them li…

>Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help Can you show your work here? Assume Amazon executives cut their salaries to 0, how much extra would they be able to pay workers?

It’s something like $300-1000/yr more if we average over all Amazon employees, depending on who counts as “executives”.

If the high pay is truly attracting better performers (which I admit is unlikely) they could easily be benefiting the company’s workers a larger amount by increasing demand. Or maybe not and they are kinda useless , but in any case the total cost isn’t that high.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#152

Post by ryan93 »

ahelwer wrote: post #80
capableweb wrote: post #19

mrits: "You guys love the police union too, right? Right???" The general idea, yeah. It proves how strong a union can be. The implementation? No. A union for people who have monopoly on violence? No. A union that protects people who are actively hurting civilians without recourse? No.

The general framework for understanding police unions from a labor perspective is that the primary function of police is to safeguard private property rights, specifically the rights of the owning class. In that sense they are structurally opposed to all other sorts of labor unions, since labor unions threaten the maximal control of owners over the private property used (in conjunction with labor) to generate profit.…

Seems like police spend almost all their time dealing with poor people who own almost no valuable property.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#153

Post by wahnfrieden »

_jal wrote: post #55
wahnfrieden wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

obviously amazon doesn't have a real case against unions, but they can try to use scary language to confuse people

"This will go down on your permanent record..." -- Bezos in helium voice I remember quitting from Krogers bagging groceries when I was a kid. I forget why, but I did give less than 2 weeks notice. Mr. Manager gravely conveyed that if I did this, I'd be barred from working for them again forever. Pretty sure my poker face then was not what it is now, but in any case I did not find that to be anywhere nearly as distres…

I wish r/kroger and r/antiwork would intersect more, it's so sad to see the experiences people post in the former

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#154

Post by zeroonetwothree »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #133
thepasswordis wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong unions certainly did wonderful things for the working class people of Detroit, Michigan.

Unions can be corrupted or do mistakes, and sometimes unions are not powerful enough in the face of global market shifts. That doesn't mean unions are bad or useless. It would be like saying that since democratic governments can be corrupted, we should do without democracy.

That analogy is poor because we don’t know of a good alternative to democratic governments. But there is an obvious alternative to unions that many workers do prefer.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#155

Post by danaris »

Spooky23 wrote: post #128
lotsofpulp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, that means less for the executives and shareholders. They may have to sell some of their properties, oh dear. Based on retail business profit margins, it would mean higher prices for customers. Not that that is a bad thing, less consumption would be great.

In the Metro NY and upstate regions, there is a supermarket chain called Shoprite that is unionized. Where I live, none of the other chains are union shops. The only visible difference as a consumer is there are less (or no) automated checkout lanes. Prices are no different than anywhere else.

> The only visible difference as a consumer is there are less (or no) automated checkout lanes.

...Really? That's a straight detriment in my book, as a customer.

I would generally prefer to support a union shop, but I'm extremely fond of self-checkout—and, in fact, further upstate, Wegman's has introduced a self-scan app that you can use to tally up your total as you shop, and just scan a code at the self-checkout register with your phone on the way out to pay.

One of the worst things unions can do is try to "protect jobs" at the expense of technological advancement, customer service, or improved product.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#156

Post by zeroonetwothree »

0n0n0m0uz wrote: post #109

People nowadays have no memory of the decades of struggle, sacrifice to win the rights we currently have. Unions are the most effective tool the working class has to affect change where they spend a majority of their waking life. No wonder why its demonized at every possible instance.

I do think unions had some (modest) benefit but the role of raw economic growth in improving worker rights is often understated.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#157

Post by bombcar »

JWlrCk9PkipFTDq wrote: post #142
bombcar wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is understandable - if you're not forced to join the union and pay for it, then everyone will just not join and let the union still negotiate on their behalf; and it'll have no money to operate and fall apart. However, I'm sure there would be other ways (for example, if the union is negotiating with the company, the company can just pay for the union, it does indirectly through salary anyway).

Yeah for sure - I can see why compulsory unionism is a thing for historical reasons and understand the argument for maintaining it but fundamentally disagree on principle (freedom of political association etc.). Voluntary membership is a hard problem for unions, and in Australia declining union membership is a big thing outside of industries like construction that still have unionism as a core part of the working cul…

I feel (especially in construction) that unions missed a chance to become a "guarantee of quality" - basically, certify that their members perform to a baseline, and if you have an issue with work they did, the union (or the company) will make it right. Basically self-policing.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#158

Post by tjpnz »

drstewart wrote: post #104
somehnguy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Who is asking for $100/hr at this level? 2. Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help. What a strange comment imo. I can’t take the ‘everything will go up!’ stance seriously while higher ups are buying 10 houses and private jets. The wage gap is atrocious. By the way, Switzerland’s GDP is 748 billion vs the United States’ 20.94 trillion. Comparing them li…

>Maybe CEOs and executives don’t need to pay themselves such absurd salaries, that would probably help Can you show your work here? Assume Amazon executives cut their salaries to 0, how much extra would they be able to pay workers?

Everyone would get 213 dollars a year extra if just their CEO didn't receive any compensation. Amazon employs approximately 1 million people in the United States and Andy Jassy received 213 million total comp in 2021.

Re: Amazon instructs New York workers “don't sign” union cards

#159

Post by thepasswordis »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #133
thepasswordis wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong unions certainly did wonderful things for the working class people of Detroit, Michigan.

Unions can be corrupted or do mistakes, and sometimes unions are not powerful enough in the face of global market shifts. That doesn't mean unions are bad or useless. It would be like saying that since democratic governments can be corrupted, we should do without democracy.

Hold on just to be clear: do you think the problem in Detroit is that the unions weren't powerful enough?
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